Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-19-06, 06:23 AM   #1
Dave Moulton
ex frame builder
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Fuso on eBay not one of mine.

A Fuso bike listed on eBay item number 320029382855 with my name to it was not built by me. It was built by my apprentice Russ Denny after I retired in 1993. That is not to say it is not an excellent frame but it should be listed as a Russ Denny built Fuso not Dave Moulton.

I have contacted the seller twice but have received no response.

__________________
History, photos and tech articles on "Dave's Bike Blog." 'dave moulton' Registry including a Picture Gallery http://www.davemoultonregistry.com/
Dave Moulton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-06, 07:02 AM   #2
Ziemas
Senior Member
 
Ziemas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Riga, Latvia
Bikes:
Posts: 10,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Perhaps you could mention this in the question part of the ebay page so prospective buyers will know.
Ziemas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-06, 07:11 AM   #3
Dave Moulton
ex frame builder
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziemas
Perhaps you could mention this in the question part of the ebay page so prospective buyers will know.
I have done this twice but with no response. Apparently it is up to the seller whether questions are shown or not.
__________________
History, photos and tech articles on "Dave's Bike Blog." 'dave moulton' Registry including a Picture Gallery http://www.davemoultonregistry.com/
Dave Moulton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-06, 07:48 AM   #4
Ziemas
Senior Member
 
Ziemas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Riga, Latvia
Bikes:
Posts: 10,082
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
^^^
If you get no response, then it is simply fraud. Perhaps you could contact ebay and mention that the frame is not what it is being represented as and you have tried to contact the seller numerious times.
Ziemas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-06, 03:49 PM   #5
Serendipper 
(((Fully Awake)))
 
Serendipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ~Serenading with sensous soliloquies whilst singing supple sentences that are simultaneously suppling my sonnets with serenity serendipitously.~ -Serendipper
Bikes: Guerciotti Pista-Giant Carbon-Bridgestone300- Batavus Type Champion Road Bike, Specialized Hardrock Commuter, On-One The Gimp (SS Rigid MTB/hit by a truck)- Raleigh Sports 3-speed,Gatsby Scorcher, comming soon...The Penny Farthing Highwheel!
Posts: 5,597
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I second that you should alert the Ebay authorities, Dave.

He is listing the bike as a "rare" Fuso. The thing that makes your bikes rare is the fact there is a finite number of them.

Nothing against Russ Denny, but as he is still taking orders, one could order a Russ Denny bike if they were to lose the auction.

Not so with a Dave Moulton.

The seller is a fraud, capitalizing on another man's fame.
__________________
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

無上甚深微妙法 .... 百千萬劫難遭遇..... 我今見聞得受持
Serendipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-06, 04:20 PM   #6
Dave Moulton
ex frame builder
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipper
I second that you should alert the Ebay authorities, Dave.
Does anyone have experience with contacting eBay? They have a “Report this item” link at the bottom of this listing, but it just leads to a bunch of multiple choice questions none of which really apply in this case. I can’t find anywhere on their site where you simply contact someone to report something like this.
__________________
History, photos and tech articles on "Dave's Bike Blog." 'dave moulton' Registry including a Picture Gallery http://www.davemoultonregistry.com/
Dave Moulton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-06, 04:57 PM   #7
cudak888 
www.theheadbadge.com
 
cudak888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Bikes: http://www.theheadbadge.com
Posts: 22,744
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moulton
Does anyone have experience with contacting eBay? They have a “Report this item” link at the bottom of this listing, but it just leads to a bunch of multiple choice questions none of which really apply in this case. I can’t find anywhere on their site where you simply contact someone to report something like this.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...sclaimers.html

Hit the "Report" button at the bottom of the page, sign in, then put the item number in there. Doesn't allow for a detailed report.

You might want to contact eBay Help direct, although eBay seems to a pretty good job of preventing anyone from doing so...

-Kurt
__________________
cudak888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-06, 05:06 PM   #8
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 1990s Peugeot (Canadian-made) rigid mountain bike; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
Posts: 10,429
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 305 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Moulton
Does anyone have experience with contacting eBay? They have a “Report this item” link at the bottom of this listing, but it just leads to a bunch of multiple choice questions none of which really apply in this case. I can’t find anywhere on their site where you simply contact someone to report something like this.
Two comments. He's a high volume seller with an excellent feedback record so let's hope he is just trying to verify your message and will pull the listing soon.

Regarding reporting problems to eBay...I have done so a couple of time and simply chose the option that was closest to what the problem was and submitted my complaint. I guess it worked because the items were both pulled a day or two later.
cooker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-06, 06:02 PM   #9
maurice
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The seller ought to clarify that Dave Moulton didn't build that frame, but it doesn't look like he actually is trying to fool anyone. If I am not mistaken, Moulton started Fuso, and he is certainly associated with that marque, so to use his name in the listing title seems to make sense. The description doesn't state anywhere that Moulton was the builder, unless I missed that?
maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-06, 06:13 PM   #10
Serendipper 
(((Fully Awake)))
 
Serendipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ~Serenading with sensous soliloquies whilst singing supple sentences that are simultaneously suppling my sonnets with serenity serendipitously.~ -Serendipper
Bikes: Guerciotti Pista-Giant Carbon-Bridgestone300- Batavus Type Champion Road Bike, Specialized Hardrock Commuter, On-One The Gimp (SS Rigid MTB/hit by a truck)- Raleigh Sports 3-speed,Gatsby Scorcher, comming soon...The Penny Farthing Highwheel!
Posts: 5,597
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by maurice
The seller ought to clarify that Dave Moulton didn't build that frame, but it doesn't look like he actually is trying to fool anyone. If I am not mistaken, Moulton started Fuso, and he is certainly associated with that marque, so to use his name in the listing title seems to make sense. The description doesn't state anywhere that Moulton was the builder, unless I missed that?

It's considered a lie by omission. Add to that the use of the word "rare", and he assumes the bid would be (rightfully) high due to the scarcity of Dave's frames.

Hard to believe someone would come into possession of a valuable object without knowing what it was. If that were the case he simply would list the bike as a "Fuso".

Reminds me of people selling late model Tiffany lamps as works by Tiffany himself. They know exactly what they are doing. Misrepresentation is not allowed on Ebay.
__________________
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

無上甚深微妙法 .... 百千萬劫難遭遇..... 我今見聞得受持
Serendipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-06, 06:22 PM   #11
maurice
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serendipper
It's considered a lie by omission. Add to that the use of the word "rare", and he assumes the bid would be (rightfully) high due to the scarcity of Dave's frames.

Hard to believe someone would come into possession of a valuable object without knowing what it was. If that were the case he simply would list the bike as a "Fuso".

Reminds me of people selling late model Tiffany lamps as works by Tiffany himself. They know exactly what they are doing. Misrepresentation is not allowed on Ebay.
I agree he should clarify that the frame was not built by Moulton, no argument there. But I don't see how calling it "rare" is deceptive. Unless a '93 Fuso is not rare? I can't imagine there are a whole lot of them around either. I should think it is still a collectible bike.
maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-06, 05:32 AM   #12
Dave Moulton
ex frame builder
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I finally got a response from the seller after a third message from me. He said he only used my name for search purposes because he felt more people would find it under ‘Dave Moulton’ than under ‘Russ Denny.’

I sent a fourth message asking that he add a note to the item stating that I did not actually build this one. Whether he does or not we will have to wait and see. I feel I have done all I can by bringing attention to the item here and other places. I have tried to contact eBay but reporting an item number without being able to state a reason is a pointless exercise. I doubt eBay will do anything.

Fuso frames and bikes that I built still go for reasonable prices. This is still a good bike so if it dosen't go too high the buyer will have a good value for the money. I just don't like to see anyone get screwed; buyers or sellers.

I always take an interest in any of my frames that come up for sale; even though there is no financial interest in it for me. They are still my children and I want to see them in good homes where they are appreciated. Anyone can contact me through my website if they have a question or are thinking of buying one of my frames.
__________________
History, photos and tech articles on "Dave's Bike Blog." 'dave moulton' Registry including a Picture Gallery http://www.davemoultonregistry.com/
Dave Moulton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-06, 06:06 AM   #13
Stacey
Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP)
 
Stacey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 9,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Dave, try this link for eBay Live Help, maybe if you can talk with someone directly?
__________________
Stacey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-06, 07:35 AM   #14
Dave Moulton
ex frame builder
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stacey
Dave, try this link for eBay Live Help, maybe if you can talk with someone directly?
Thanks Stacey that is useful. I will give this seller a chance to post a disclaimer before going that route.
__________________
History, photos and tech articles on "Dave's Bike Blog." 'dave moulton' Registry including a Picture Gallery http://www.davemoultonregistry.com/
Dave Moulton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-06, 10:54 AM   #15
Stacey
Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP)
 
Stacey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 9,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Glad to help Dave, good luck with it.
__________________
Stacey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-06, 12:50 PM   #16
OLDYELLR
My bikes became Vintage
 
OLDYELLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Bikes:
Posts: 1,110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Just curious how many Fusos Russ Denny built after Dave. If fewer that Dave, it would, indeed, be rare. However, the seller is remiss in insinuating it was built by Dave. This was also reported on the CR list, so between there and here many potential vintage bike buyers know what the deal is. The bidding hasn't gone very high ($129.50 currently) but it's only Chorus components.

Don't know exactly how the fraud reporting process on eBay works. Sometimes an auction is pulled or relisted imediately an inaccuracy is reported, but other misrepresentations just stay. I think if a seller ignores warnings, there's little eBay can do without going to a lot of effort. Some sellers have a lot more nerve than others and make a living based on a sucker being born every minute.
OLDYELLR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-06, 02:31 PM   #17
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Bikes:
Posts: 6,786
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Seems like he's not getting any serious offers on it anyway, still below the reserve price. You can send ebay e-mails to the three current bidders and tell them it's not one of yours, maybe they won't run the price up any higher. If it does sell you can send the winner an e-mail and he/she might back out of the deal.
DiabloScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-06, 03:29 PM   #18
Dave Moulton
ex frame builder
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here’s an update Wednesday evening. I managed to get a real person at eBay through the link that Stacey gave me; they said they would look into it and let me know in 48 hours.

I got an email back from the seller say he would post an addendum saying the frame was built by Russ. But that hasn’t happened yet at the time I’m posting this.

Russ Denny only built a few Fuso frames for a year or so after I left then started building frames under his own name. So this particular frame is indeed rare.

When I handed my business over to Russ in 1993 he had worked for me eight years and could do anything that I could. In one aspect, filet brazing, he was better than me. The frames he built were equal to mine, but that is not the issue here.

Russ should be given credit for this bike and my name should be left out of it because I had nothing what-so-ever to do with it. I wasn’t even there when it was built.

Everyone’s opinions and suggestions are greatly appreciated.
__________________
History, photos and tech articles on "Dave's Bike Blog." 'dave moulton' Registry including a Picture Gallery http://www.davemoultonregistry.com/

Last edited by Dave Moulton; 09-22-06 at 05:49 AM.
Dave Moulton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-06, 05:48 AM   #19
Dave Moulton
ex frame builder
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Update Friday morning:
The seller has finally added a note saying the frame was not built by me but by Russ Denny.
Unfortunately he spelled Russ’s name incorrectly, but I guess this is as good as it’s going to get. Link to eBay item.
__________________
History, photos and tech articles on "Dave's Bike Blog." 'dave moulton' Registry including a Picture Gallery http://www.davemoultonregistry.com/

Last edited by Dave Moulton; 09-22-06 at 05:53 AM.
Dave Moulton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-06, 06:02 AM   #20
Stacey
Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP)
 
Stacey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 9,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Glad things worked out well Dave.
__________________
Stacey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-06, 03:10 PM   #21
TMB
Permanent Refugee .......
 
TMB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Okanagan Valley, BC.
Bikes: Steel
Posts: 1,256
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I read the "Fuso on eBay" on the front page and started to hyper-ventilate.

Having just admitted that the Moulton I found and bought, was too damn big for me, I sold it.

Some lucky stiff in County Waterford is going to love it. Tells me he has been wanting one since reading the Penguin book, Art of the Bicycle.

Anyhoo, having lost mine and enjoyed the experience of conversing with Dave over the bike - I am on the look out for another - hopefully in my size this time (!).

The thread title you put up on this one just about sent me to the ER Dave!!
TMB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:20 PM.