Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-23-06, 09:30 PM   #1
svt4cam
On a mission from God
Thread Starter
 
svt4cam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: In a squalor
Bikes: 6? Favorit (under construction), 82 Bianchi Nuovo Racer, 76 Alan, 8? Raleigh Fixie, 75 Atala, 94 Cannondale 2.8, 75 Paramount P13, 94 Cannondale RT1000 tandem, 76 Masi Gran Criterium, 81 Motobecane Grand Touring, 77 Mondia Super, 12 Specialized Crux
Posts: 290
Growl, I hate ebay

You can have the highest bid and still not win the girl!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...9521&rd=1&rd=1
svt4cam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-06, 10:01 PM   #2
Scooper
Decrepit Member
 
Scooper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco California
Bikes: Waterford 953 RS-22
Posts: 10,088
I simply won't bid on stuff that has an undisclosed reserve no matter how badly I want the item. If the seller has to have a minimum, he/she should start the bidding there. If there are no bids, he wants too much. Period.
__________________
- Stan
I'm with her.

Last edited by Scooper; 12-24-06 at 07:07 PM.
Scooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-06, 11:12 PM   #3
mastershake916
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nor~Cal
Bikes:
Posts: 1,691
Reserves suck so much ass.
mastershake916 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-06, 11:14 PM   #4
M-theory
Senior Member
 
M-theory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 309
Well, $1100 is slightly cheap for that bike. I totally agree that reserve prices are lame however and the seller deserves it being unsold.. It's also a bit sketchy even to Paypal a zero-feedback seller $1400 or so. Just pretend you would have lost your money had you won.
M-theory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-06, 11:54 PM   #5
Sierra
Uff Da!
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 1,040
Super high reserves are sometimes used by people who do not really intend to sell the item at the present time, they just want to get a good idea of what price the market will bear. Ebay is the best place to do this because of it's enormous market numbers. I know of one person who does this with classic cars. Probably cheaper than a professional appraisal, and almost as good.
Sierra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-06, 11:16 AM   #6
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 10,672
ebay can be tricky as we all know, saw a bike hit over 6k in early summer, did not make reserve, up again in the fall it sold for just over 4k.

The zero feedback is the big gamble in my view, best to sell a few smaller items, get good feedback then drag out the big dollar stuff.

Last edited by repechage; 12-24-06 at 11:26 AM.
repechage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-06, 11:58 AM   #7
Bikedued
Senior Member
 
Bikedued's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 10,538
Well, reserves keep you from being ripped off. Imagine you put up an $800 bike with no reserve
starting at $99. The auction ends and the winner gets it for just over the starting bid. You then have to haggle over shipping costs which they won't want to pay, etc etc. Whenever I make my reserve the starting bid, I get no bids? What's lame about them, if they're reasonable? I'm not going to give a bike away? I usually do buy it now only for that very reason. Everybody wants something for nothing and $30 shipping, when it clearly costs about $100 to ship any bike now, if not more?

His reserve was too high to get the bike sold, that's all.....,,,,BD
Bikedued is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-06, 12:27 PM   #8
TheOtherGuy
Knows Bigfoot's Momma
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal
Bikes: yeah; got a couple...
Posts: 1,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by svt4cam
You can have the highest bid and still not win the girl!
Or, you can also have the highest bid with reserve not met, and negotiate with the seller after the auction ends. Some sellers do that to avoid eBay's excessive fees...! If the buyer really wants a rare item, he'll negotiate... A seller knows that as well. I once put in a bid of $30,000.00 just to uncover reserve, then retracted my bid... That told me what reserve was (which was ridiculously high). Auction ended with reserve not met, but me as highest bidder... Since he was local, I inspected the bike, negotiated and picked up in person. Some people laughed at what I'd paid, but shortly after I'd bought that one, similar bikes in lesser condition were selling for as much or more. Glad I bought it, as it's still the cleanest example I've yet seen.
__________________
nice lugs baby!

Last edited by TheOtherGuy; 12-24-06 at 12:40 PM.
TheOtherGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-06, 12:37 PM   #9
AGuinness
Senior Member
 
AGuinness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Guadalajara, México
Bikes: 1987 Specialized Rock Hopper
Posts: 213
I've been thinking about this lately, since I am thinking of selling my bike in the summer... If one is to have a reserve, what is the point of starting the bid at $0.01? It would make more sense to start the bid at an amount close to the reserve, or just start bidding at the reserve...

For example, if I were to have a reserve of $675, I would probably start bidding at $475, and have a BIN option of $775 or $875. AND, I would state the reserve in the item description... I think more people will participate if they know precisely what minimum they will have to spend in order to win the item.

S.
AGuinness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-06, 12:44 PM   #10
TheOtherGuy
Knows Bigfoot's Momma
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal
Bikes: yeah; got a couple...
Posts: 1,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuinness
...If one is to have a reserve, what is the point of starting the bid at $0.01? It would make more sense to start the bid at an amount close to the reserve, or just start bidding at the reserve...
S.
The purpose of doing that is to get bidding started in hopes of "a bidding frenzy"...(the seller's best friend). Starting an item too high just makes people want to pass it up, but starting low, they think they have a chance of uncovering reserve and winning the item.
__________________
nice lugs baby!
TheOtherGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-06, 01:05 PM   #11
mswantak
Glutton for Punishment
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Leandro, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 2,896
I've got to get around and put that Carlton-built Phillips on eBay pretty soon, and I'm not looking forward to it. It seems like such a convoluted, nickel-and-dime process compared to CL.

Why don't one of you guys just buy it and save me the headache?
mswantak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-06, 02:18 PM   #12
Canterbury5
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Oklahoma City
Bikes:
Posts: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikedued
Well, reserves keep you from being ripped off. Imagine you put up an $800 bike with no reserve
starting at $99. The auction ends and the winner gets it for just over the starting bid. You then have to haggle over shipping costs which they won't want to pay, etc etc. Whenever I make my reserve the starting bid, I get no bids? What's lame about them, if they're reasonable? I'm not going to give a bike away? I usually do buy it now only for that very reason. Everybody wants something for nothing and $30 shipping, when it clearly costs about $100 to ship any bike now, if not more?

His reserve was too high to get the bike sold, that's all.....,,,,BD

If its an $800 item and the least youll accept for it is $500, then start the bidding at $500. Reserves are stupid.
Canterbury5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-06, 03:13 PM   #13
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 9,783
You're ripping yourself off if you hope to get $800 for a bike and start the bidding at $99 (or .99) with no reserve. I don't think you can hope for both a bidding frenzy and the return that you're looking for. The first happens if you're lucky, the second if you're strategic.

I've never used a reserve because I think the concept is dumb, but I usually start the bidding at the minimum I would hope to get for the bike or frameset. Some have gone for that price and no more, and that's fine. Some have gone for much more. The last bike I sold I started the bidding at $99 and put a BIN in of $300 just for the hell of it (I usually don't do a BIN), and a buyer put out the $300 within the first 24 hours of auction. You never know.

Neal
nlerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-06, 05:12 PM   #14
OrangeOkie
Senior Member
 
OrangeOkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oklahoma City
Bikes: Canondale LL Bean, Criterium; both MY Schwinn Volare's, Voyageur 11.8; Holdsworth; Bob Jackson; Raleigh Super Course Mk II and Super Course Racing USA; Trek 1500
Posts: 443
He's back . . . ebay


Long live the American Free Enterprise System, regardless of the ninnies that will never understand it!
OrangeOkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-06, 05:31 PM   #15
alk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 117
There is nothing wrong with a reserve auction, even if it frustrates you as a buyer. Undisclosed reserve auctions have been around long before ebay.

If everyone were perfectly rational you are right, there would be no reason for reserve prices. In fact, there would be no need for auctions at all. Everyone would simply send in their maximum price, and the seller would choose to sell the item or not, depending on the best offer.

But human beings aren't rational. If you bid low on an item you are now invested in it. If you are outbid your competitive nature will encourage you to bid again. Low starting prices allow this competition to start early. High starting prices scare off potential bidders.

As a seller, use this to your advantage. Unless I am concerned about low interest in an item, I usually start it at 99 cents.

As a buyer, the best thing you can do is to ignore the competitiveness of the auction. Decide on the maximum amount of money you would be willing to pay for the item. Bid this amount in the closing seconds of the auction to prevent yourself from being outbid in a bidding war. Use auctionsniper if you want to be sure. If you are outbid at the last second or fail to make reserve, there are no regrets, since you would have had to spend more than your maximum in order to obtain the item.

This is the only intelligent way to bid.
alk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-06, 02:26 AM   #16
TheOtherGuy
Knows Bigfoot's Momma
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal
Bikes: yeah; got a couple...
Posts: 1,544
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlerner
You're ripping yourself off if you hope to get $800 for a bike and start the bidding at $99 (or .99) with no reserve. I don't think you can hope for both a bidding frenzy and the return that you're looking for. The first happens if you're lucky, the second if you're strategic....

Neal
The reserve idea works pretty well if you know it'll either be met, or you're selling such a hot item, that someone will negotiate the purchase without reserve being met. If you're selling a common item that no one is wanting, then the reserve doesn't make any sense... Selling a perfect, original paint touring Rene Herse, with original bags and all the options, in a 54 cm... Better put a high reserve on it; that bike's going to sell regardless, either on eBay or after. Someone will pay top dollar (or yen).
__________________
nice lugs baby!
TheOtherGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-06, 07:51 AM   #17
McDave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,404
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk
As a buyer, the best thing you can do is to ignore the competitiveness of the auction. Decide on the maximum amount of money you would be willing to pay for the item. Bid this amount in the closing seconds of the auction to prevent yourself from being outbid in a bidding war. Use auctionsniper if you want to be sure. If you are outbid at the last second or fail to make reserve, there are no regrets, since you would have had to spend more than your maximum in order to obtain the item.

This is the only intelligent way to bid.
+1. ESnipe is another good sniping service.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Canterbury5
If its an $800 item and the least youll accept for it is $500, then start the bidding at $500. Reserves are stupid.
One reason sellers use a reserve is because the reserve fee is refundable if the item sells. Insertion fees aren't refundable. A .01-.99 cent Insertion/Reserve fee is only .20 cents. A $500+ Insertion/Reserve fee is $4.80. You get that 20 cent - $4.80 fee back if you used a Reserve and the item sells. So they list it for .01-.99 cents for a fee of .20 cents, then if it meets their reserve and sells they don't owe anymore Insertion/Reserve fees, just Final Value Fees (which really add up once you include all the other extras like supersized photos, bold subject text, gallery photos, ect.).
McDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-06, 09:32 AM   #18
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Bikes:
Posts: 6,590
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGuy
I once put in a bid of $30,000.00 just to uncover reserve, then retracted my bid... That told me what reserve was (which was ridiculously high). .
That is an intriguing concept - might be worth having a bogus identity just to be able to do that with no consequences to my rating.

I've seen auctions with reserves in which the seller says what the reserve is in the text - that never made much sense until now.

Using a high reserve to get a cheap appraisal really sucks though - if it's not for sale don't put it on eBay. It's probably better than a professional appraisal though - I've been shopping for a used pickup and at one place the dealer told me "This vehicle is worth $xx,xxx!", and I said "It's worth what someone will pay you for it, and it's been on your lot for two months so... it's worth something less than you think."
DiabloScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-06, 09:14 AM   #19
fender1
Senior Member
 
fender1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Berwyn PA
Bikes: I hate bikes!
Posts: 5,486
I e-mailed the seller and told him that having an undisclosed reserve for his auction would work against him as a truly intrerested seller who knows the bike is valuabke will stay away and other folks who may not have the actually money to pay would lured in to biddng. He told me the prior reserve was $2000 and the current reserve is $1600.
fender1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:06 AM.