Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 83
  1. #1
    road curmudgeon, FG rider GeraldChan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Gaithersburg, MD
    My Bikes
    1973 Nishiki Professional, 1990 Serotta Colorado II, 2002 Waterford Track
    Posts
    677
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Why is it bad to use modern shifters on Vintage bikes but it's OK to use clinchers?

    I'm still fairly new to the forum but I have noticed that there is a rabid hatred of new tech on our classic rides, such as brake lever shifters and splash tape, but most bikes pictured on this sub-forum are running clinchers (even the early 70's bikes which all came with tubulars).
    I'm not trying to start a flame war but is this some kind of double standard? Someone please explain.
    BTW, you probably already guessed that I am a fan of glued on tires but even I have a set of clincher wheels for each of my bikes to use in the winter months. Gerry
    1973 Nishiki Professional, steel, green/black, Campy NR FG conversion, Brooks Pro
    1991 Serotta Colorado II, steel, pearl white, full DA 8 spd STI, SI Flite
    2002 Waterford 1700 Track, steel, jet black, DA, Ultegra and Phil, SI Flite
    2006 Trek Madone 5.2, carbon fiber, blue, Ultegra and Bontrager, Fizik Arione

  2. #2
    NJS my life! roughrider504's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    1,214
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I dont like them because of the prices for new tires. I just cannot find any cheap tubulars. I have a old tubular disc, but I have not used it yet because I dont want to fork alot of money into that old thing, because it could self destruct.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    S.E. Iowa
    My Bikes
    all diamond frames
    Posts
    1,164
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by GeraldChan
    I'm still fairly new to the forum but I have noticed that there is a rabid hatred of new tech on our classic rides, such as brake lever shifters and splash tape, but most bikes pictured on this sub-forum are running clinchers (even the early 70's bikes which all came with tubulars).
    I'm not trying to start a flame war but is this some kind of double standard? Someone please explain.
    BTW, you probably already guessed that I am a fan of glued on tires but even I have a set of clincher wheels for each of my bikes to use in the winter months. Gerry
    I bought a 1972 Flandria off the show room floor which came equipped with Saminox alloy clinchers. I have a 1978 Paramount, completely stock original, that came equipped with Weinmann clinchers. An early 70's Azuki-clinchers; I could go on.......

  4. #4
    Lanky Lass East Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Take a deep breath, and ask--What would Sheldon do?
    My Bikes
    Nishiki Nut! International, Pro, Olympic 12, Sport mixte, and others too numerous to mention.
    Posts
    21,575
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So, it's not rabid hatred, just period correct.

    Finding quality tubulars can be a problem. But in general it's not hard to find period correct derailleurs or brakes.

    Just my opinion.

    East Hill
    ___________________________________________________
    TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...

  5. #5
    Seņor Member USAZorro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Carlisle, PA
    My Bikes
    1954 Hetchins M.O., 1959 Viking Severn Valley, 1970 Raleigh Pro, 1972 Fuji "The Finest", 1974 Raleigh Superbe&Comp, 1976 Raleigh Team Pro, 1994 Trek 830 MTB, 2000 Bob Jackson Arrowhead, Unicycle
    Posts
    13,034
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ha! I ride tubulars on all my bikes that came with them. And a couple that didn't.
    Last edited by USAZorro; 12-30-06 at 06:53 AM.
    The search for inner peace continues...

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    S.E. Iowa
    My Bikes
    all diamond frames
    Posts
    1,164
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just thinking back to the early 70's when I started riding road bikes. As I remember, the guys that I knew and rode with that toured, generally used clinchers. The racer boys trained on clinchers and used tubulars on race day. I rode clinchers as I didn't like fixing flats all the time. This has nothing to do with period correct, but is simply a matter of choice (then and now).
    And to the OP, if you want to put brake shifters on that Serotta, go ahead, they really do work a lot better than that old lever stuff
    Last edited by crazyb; 12-30-06 at 07:08 AM.

  7. #7
    biked well well biked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    6,796
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Personally, I think it depends on the bike and what you want to do with it. I've got an '83 Schwinn le tour luxe I use as my everyday rider, and when the bike was in its original form, the frame was by far the strong point of the bike. It's now sporting a 3 x 9 drivetrain with bar-end shifters (indexed rear), 700c clinchers (originally 27" clinchers), and aero style brake levers. It's a much better bike now than it was originally, for my needs anyway. But the '72 Raleigh International I just received has a full Campy NR group, a truly classic drivetrain. No way am I going to change that, I think it's one of the strengths of the bike-

  8. #8
    Senior Member Bikedued's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    9,047
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    None of my bikes came with them, guess they weren't high dollar enough when they were new, lol.,,,,BD
    "Whale. Oil. Beef. Hooked!" The Rumjacks

  9. #9
    Lanky Lass East Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Take a deep breath, and ask--What would Sheldon do?
    My Bikes
    Nishiki Nut! International, Pro, Olympic 12, Sport mixte, and others too numerous to mention.
    Posts
    21,575
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I was going to mention that GC also is the proud owner of a Nishiki Pro!

    East Hill
    ___________________________________________________
    TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...

  10. #10
    Death fork? Naaaah!! top506's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    The other Maine, north of RT 2
    My Bikes
    '71 Gitane Super Corsa, '73 Atala Giro d'Italia, '73 Schwinn Super Sport, '76 Viscount Aerospace Pro, '81 Miyata 710, '81 Lotus Classique, '84 Ross Signature 290s, '84 Shogun 500, '85 Miele Gara, '87 Miyata 512, '89 Centurion Ironman, many more
    Posts
    3,058
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    "rabid hatred" might be a bit strong in my case; being a cheap Yankee I look with deep disdain on any component with a high price that is designed with a limited life and no possibility or repair, like Shimano brifters and carbon frames.
    Top
    (who might be wrong about the carbon frames, but I'm not getting one to find out.....)

  11. #11
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Ann Arbor, MI
    My Bikes
    Terraferma 650b, Mondonico SL and ELOS, Masi Gran Criterium, Trek 610, Breezer Liberty, Georgena Terry Classic
    Posts
    11,062
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by East Hill
    So, it's not rabid hatred, just period correct.

    Finding quality tubulars can be a problem. But in general it's not hard to find period correct derailleurs or brakes.

    Just my opinion.

    East Hill
    I don't understand the problem in finding quality tubulars, at least on line. Ebay often has pairs of decent tubies (I live on cheap tubulars, BTW!!) often for $30/pair. Gommitalia tires are fine twith proper installation, as are Continental Giro, Vittoria Rally, and Servizio Corse. If you think you need original Vittoria CGs or CX, or Clement Seta or Selle Main, you will have a problem.

    As far as fragility, it's a myth IMHO. I weigh 185 and have ridden on our local POS roads at night, which means I blundered into a pothole or two at speed. The tires emerged unscathed, and the wheels just needed a touch with a spoke wrench. The wheels are NOT Clydesdale parts: suppsedly "fragile" Mavic GP3 rims 36 hole on 3x DT butted spokes, with Campy SR low-flange hubs. Lighweight, classic, original, strong, smooth and reliable.

    I have had a tubular blow out, but only after the sidewall had been nicked in a hamfisted repair effort, my first tubular repair in 25 years.

    If you use Lennard Zinn's intructions for installing and aligning a tubular tire, I don't think you can go wrong.

    Road "it's not as big a deal as it sounds!" Fan

  12. #12
    Utility Cyclist
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    345
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In Germany in the '60s, my commuter bike (Raleigh 3spd, can't remember the model, if it had a model) had clinchers. I thought tubulars stopped being de rigeur for bikes about the same time cars stopped using them in the teens or twenties.

  13. #13
    Avenir Equipped BlankCrows's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    My Bikes
    Chesini X-Uno, etc.....
    Posts
    1,149
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Model-T's didn't come with air conditioners, so collectors don't add them now.

    The older classic bikes have more character than most of the new ones you see in shops. When one wants a classic look on an older bike, more often than not they will try to make it like it was when originally marketed. Splash tape and brifters aren't popular around here because you didn't see those on the C&V bikes when they were new.

  14. #14
    The Legitimiser Sammyboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southampton, UK
    My Bikes
    Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
    Posts
    4,848
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Only high-zoot road racers used them even in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Clinchers were always an option, and if you use them now, the bike looks much the same. If you use brifters, it changes the look. That said, I just do what I like with my bikes, rather than worry what other people think, and I'd suggest everyone do the same. If I wanted a set of brifters, you can bet your bottom I'd have them, and not be in the least interested if people got upset!

  15. #15
    Lanky Lass East Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Take a deep breath, and ask--What would Sheldon do?
    My Bikes
    Nishiki Nut! International, Pro, Olympic 12, Sport mixte, and others too numerous to mention.
    Posts
    21,575
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by BlankCrows
    When one wants a classic look on an older bike, more often than not they will try to make it like it was when originally marketed. Splash tape and brifters aren't popular around here because you didn't see those on the C&V bikes when they were new.
    Good point. We like the classic look. We like steel bikes. It's not that we don't have brifters and whatnot on the newer bikes, but the classic bikes didn't come with brifters. As sammyboy said, though, clinchers don't change the look of the bike. Brifters do.

    But it's your bike.

    East Hill
    ___________________________________________________
    TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...

  16. #16
    Chrome Freak Rabid Koala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    My Bikes
    1971 Chrome Paramount P-13, 1973 Gitane Tour de France, 1974 Raleigh Professional
    Posts
    3,192
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I reserve my "rabid" hatred for that rare occasion that I am in a Target and/or Wally World and see bikes there labeled Schwinn. That is just wrong!!

    I'm pretty tolerant as to what others equip their bikes with. If ya want brifters, then go for it!
    1971 Paramount P-13 Chrome
    1973 Paramount P-15 Opaque Blue
    1973 Gitane Tour De France
    1974 Raleigh Professional
    1991 Waterford Paramount
    Litespeed Tuscany
    Holland Titanium

  17. #17
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
    My Bikes
    1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
    Posts
    14,809
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In the 1970s when I was training for the double century and racking up the miles, I had two sets of wheels for my Nishiki: OEM Araya clincher rims and Sunshine high-flange hubs with 27x1-1/8" 85PSI skinwalls, and cotton Clement tubulars with Fiamme yellow label rims and Campag. low-flange hubs. I gave up tubulars when I moved to San Diego in 1981, because of the goathead thorns along Coast Highway 101, and because the best high-performance clinchers had become so good. I am seriously debating whether to try tubulars again when I rebuild Capo #2, for which I have the original tubular rims (which perhaps I should not trust anymore!).

    As for gear controls, I am so accustomed to friction that I have no desire to change, and I have yet to find an indexed front shifter which works to my satisfaction, i.e., which permits adequate trimming of the cage position. For commuting in traffic, I admit that taking a hand off the bars can be a challenge, but that's what barcons are for.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
    Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
    Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
    Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

  18. #18
    Senior Member TimJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    1,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I wasn't aware there was a standard.
    fun facts: Psychopaths have trouble understanding abstract concepts.
    "Incompetent individuals, compared with their more competent peers, will dramatically overestimate their ability and performance relative to objective criteria."

  19. #19
    Paramount Fan
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Vermont
    My Bikes
    Paramounts, Pros, Colnago, Masi, Sachs, Moulton, Witcomb, Motobecane, Bianchis, Fat City, others, mostly '70s-'80s
    Posts
    15
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Not-so-High-Zoot

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyboy
    Only high-zoot road racers used them even in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Clinchers were always an option, and if you use them now, the bike looks much the same. If you use brifters, it changes the look. That said, I just do what I like with my bikes, rather than worry what other people think, and I'd suggest everyone do the same. If I wanted a set of brifters, you can bet your bottom I'd have them, and not be in the least interested if people got upset!
    That's not really true. I got into riding lightweights in the early '70s and at that time clinchers were for touring and sewups were for fast riding. There were some people who used clinchers on club rides, but not many. Most of the people who showed up for fast rides were not racers, and certainly not "high-zoot racers," but their Crescents, Peugeots Gitanes, Paramounts and Raleigh Pros came with sewups and that's what they rode. I think this had as much to do with the tire construction masterials as with the tire geometry and method of attachment. Certainly the wire beads added weight, but until the skinwall tires started appearing in the mid-70s, promoted by Schwinn and, later, Specialized, there was a significant difference between the weight and performance of the lightest clinchers and all but the heaviest tubulars. Sewups tended to have lighter tubes than those available for clinchers, as well; often even latex tubes were used.

    All that has been largely erased in the intervening years. If you can find silver rims and non-blackwall tires, it can be hard to notice the visual difference between clinchers and sewups; especially when in motion. On the other hand, index shifting totally changes the look of the bike with different derailleurs, brake levers and shifters. There are not that many options for indexing on 126mm rear triangle spacing and virtually nothing for 120mm. Modern indexing requires cassette sprockets, requiring the swap out of freewheel hubs. It all begs the question that, if you are going to change out that much of the original componentry, why not just go with a modern bike?

    There are some workable solutions for 6-speed frames involving Suntour Accushift and early Shimano, Campy and others. With the proliferation of stripped frames as a result of eBay profiteering, I can certainly understand someone fitting a '70s or early '80s classic frameset with index shifting, even if this requires respacing from 126mm to 130mm (though I generally like to stay away from spreading a frame). But, if you've got an original, complete bike with 120mm spacing, I promote "Just say NO" to index conversions.

    I'm a bit more shocked when I hear of someone tossing good original componentry for "fixie conversions." I would hope that anyone who does this has a labeled box with the original components, but I really doubt it. Most people who are hawking these converted bikes sound like real hacks and yahoos from the ads I've seen. I love riding track bikes, even on the road, but I think some people making these conversions are doing so because they are not mechanics and just don't understand bicycle gearing systems.

  20. #20
    thunder in your heart.
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    vancouver
    My Bikes
    5 bikes of various stature.
    Posts
    123
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sbarner
    I'm a bit more shocked when I hear of someone tossing good original componentry for "fixie conversions." I would hope that anyone who does this has a labeled box with the original components, but I really doubt it. Most people who are hawking these converted bikes sound like real hacks and yahoos from the ads I've seen. I love riding track bikes, even on the road, but I think some people making these conversions are doing so because they are not mechanics and just don't understand bicycle gearing systems.
    Rest assured that there are some people who understand bicycle gearing systems, enjoy riding their fixed converted road bikes, and keep the original componentry in its own box.

  21. #21
    road curmudgeon, FG rider GeraldChan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Gaithersburg, MD
    My Bikes
    1973 Nishiki Professional, 1990 Serotta Colorado II, 2002 Waterford Track
    Posts
    677
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All my NR Campy parts are in a zip-lock bag and labelled in a box in my basement. I am using most of the grouppo except for the downtube shifters and derailleurs obviously. I could reconvert back to a period correct bike in an hour.
    My post was not to say that I would put modern shifters on a classic bike but rather why is it OK to use non-period correct tires and esp. rims on a classic when everything else is correct. Granted, I would not trust a pair of Fiamme Yellow or Red labels hoops laced to my straight skewer Campy hubs but some modern rims appear correct.
    I submit to you that in order to really feel what your steel steed was designed for, tubulars is a significant part of that feel. There really is a difference! Just my personal opinion folk-not trying to start a flame war.
    Gerry
    1973 Nishiki Professional, steel, green/black, Campy NR FG conversion, Brooks Pro
    1991 Serotta Colorado II, steel, pearl white, full DA 8 spd STI, SI Flite
    2002 Waterford 1700 Track, steel, jet black, DA, Ultegra and Phil, SI Flite
    2006 Trek Madone 5.2, carbon fiber, blue, Ultegra and Bontrager, Fizik Arione

  22. #22
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    n.w. superdrome
    My Bikes
    1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa
    Posts
    17,623
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't know why you say you wouldn't trust your fiamme Red labels, I could see
    not being comfortable on yellow labels due to weight limits (I'm not the 135 I was back
    in the day). Did the metal break down? Has being stored for 25plus years caused the metal
    to fatigue to the point of failure?
    I ride Gel330s, GP4s, Super Champion Aspins all of similiar vintage to your fiammes and
    I have no fear that they are going to fail.
    As for your original post, all of my bikes are riders, none are show bikes in concours condition.
    I have brifters on my Serotta (a few years older than yours) and speedplay clipless pedals, and
    the bike is shod with Mavic GP4 rims.
    The only thing I get really grouchy about is nomenclature, call them tubulars, call them
    sewups, or singles or whatever the regional name is, but for gods' sake don't call them tubies.
    marty
    Sono pių lento di quel che sembra.
    Odio la gente, tutti.

    Are you a registered member? Why not? click here to register. Its free, and only takes 27 seconds!
    Want to upgrade your membership? Click Here.

  23. #23
    road curmudgeon, FG rider GeraldChan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Gaithersburg, MD
    My Bikes
    1973 Nishiki Professional, 1990 Serotta Colorado II, 2002 Waterford Track
    Posts
    677
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Lotek: I agree, the term tubies makes my flesh crawl. I don't have anymore Red labels that are round as I am 25 lbs over my ideal riding weight. Gerry
    1973 Nishiki Professional, steel, green/black, Campy NR FG conversion, Brooks Pro
    1991 Serotta Colorado II, steel, pearl white, full DA 8 spd STI, SI Flite
    2002 Waterford 1700 Track, steel, jet black, DA, Ultegra and Phil, SI Flite
    2006 Trek Madone 5.2, carbon fiber, blue, Ultegra and Bontrager, Fizik Arione

  24. #24
    biked well well biked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    6,796
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All this talk about weight and yellow label Fiamme rims kind of "clinches" (corny pun intended ) my decision to put the yellow label rims aside on the Raleigh International. Let's just say I'm much closer to 200 than 150 lbs. What do you all think about lacing those vintage '72 Record hubs that are currently laced to the Fiammes to some new Mavic clinchers? Not in terms of "correctness", obviously, but for functionality?

  25. #25
    Crawlin' up, flyin' down bikingshearer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
    My Bikes
    1967 Paramount, 1982-ish Ron Cooper,1986 De Rosa Professional, 1978 Eisentraut "A," 1961 BianchiCompetizione, 1994 Trek 520, 199? Burley Bossa Nova
    Posts
    3,035
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by well biked
    Personally, I think it depends on the bike and what you want to do with it.
    Bingo. In some cases it also depend on what came with the be when you got it. In my case, my 1967 Paramount came to me as frame-and-fork, and I wanted it to be a rider, not a wall hanging. I also did not have the time or resources to make it period correct. That meant using what I had, with some judicious purchases. I love riding and looking at the result. I like to think that the frame is now doing what it was meant to be doing - getting out on the road and giving someone a lot of pleasure.

    Personally, I'm with the group that says hang the stuff you like on a frame. Unless it's a '60's Cinelli or Masi and you try to hang Japanese stuff on it - that's just wrong.
    "I'm in shape -- round is a shape." Andy Rooney

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •