nlerner

In response to the thread on the correct Reynolds 531 decals for an early 70s Raleigh Super Course, I wanted to catalogue the range of 531 decals on the bikes in my herd that have reasonably intact ones. As was pointed out in that thread, Classic Rendezvous shows some of the range on its Reynolds page, but I wanted to augment those here.

If you have 531 bikes with known dates, please contribute your pics.

In these pics I'm showing the following:

--1949 Raleigh Clubman with a plain gauge 531 decal (top left)
--1951 Raleigh Clubman with a plain gauge 531 decal (top middle)
--1961 Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix with a plain gauge 531 decal (top right)
--1971 Raleigh Super Course with a plain gauge (main triangle) 531 decal (bottom left)
--1974 Raleigh International with a double-butted throughout 531 decal (bottom middle)
--1979 Raleigh Competition GS with a double-butted throughout 531 decal (bottom right)

Neal

Sierra

That's interesting about the one from your Raleigh Competition with the stars on the lower right. I read that that is one that they made up for Schwinn to use on the Paramounts because Schwinn thought the diagonal one implied that the fork blades and stays were butted(which they weren't). I didn't know that this decal was used on anything other than the Paramount.

dbakl

My understanding was as well that the stars were designed for Paramounts. They do turn up on Raleighs too for some reason.

cyclotoine

Early 70s butted 531 decal fork tubes and stays: Note: No registered trademark and no TI this is different from Neals 1974 international and I must ask Neal, are you 100 percent sure that is the original decal? I was under the impression, this decal
came before that (can someone chime in as to when TI was added?)
and of course my decal came before either of those (i think 71/72)



Edit: I went through a lot to finally realise what I was dealing with, a CR list member informed me that his 73 or 74 raleigh (an international I believe) used the same decals as mine and pointed out to me the lack of both the registered trademark and the TI and that there decals only appeared for maybe 3-4 years.. 1971-74 perhaps?

nlerner

According to the Classic Rendezvous page, it was "early to mid 70s" that the TI designation was added to the decals, and that page notes that "it's not entirely clear" when that happened.

As far as whether that 531 decal on my '74 Int'l (according to its serial #) is original or not, its condition is consistent with the rest of the decals on the frame, but, of course, I can't say for sure as I've only owned it for a short while. I sold a different '74 Int'l frameset over the summer, but, unfortunately, the 531 decal was gone.

Neal

nlerner

Another odd data point: I just stared at the pdfs of the 1973 and 1974 Raleigh catalogues available at retroraleighs.com, and the 531 double butted stickers for those years seem look like the one below!

Kurt K. has my 1975 catalogue in hand at the moment, so perhaps he can check for what the decal might have looked like that year.

Neal

cyclotoine

It does have the registered trade mark on it though which, means it is post the decal I have pictured (the corky decal) it seems they added the manuafactured... bit pretty early but continued to make decals without it. This seemingly senseless number of decal for the same thing makes it very hard to date bikes as well as find the proper decal (in my case - thanks to Mike S though for producing it). Even Greg Softley in australia did not have my decal in his library.

repechage

I saw the one on the upper right of the same style on a Penton motocycle in the early 70's, I was impressed that Penton used Reynolds.

repechage

Do not assume that transfers made by Reynolds in any given year were USED the same year! And if its French, do not assume that the transfer is telling the truth.

cudak888 

EDIT: The photos are up.

Team Pro has the 531 decal with the gold-backround Reynolds text below it, minus TI logo:
https://www.jaysmarine.com/Raleigh_Cat_75_3_LG.jpg

Pro Track has NO gold-backround text at the bottom:
https://www.jaysmarine.com/Raleigh_Cat_75_4_LG.jpg

Professional Mk.IV uses the same decal as the Pro Track:
https://www.jaysmarine.com/Raleigh_Cat_75_5_LG.jpg

International uses the same decal as the Team Pro:
https://www.jaysmarine.com/Raleigh_Cat_75_6_LG.jpg

The Competition uses a decal unlike all the others - it resembles that of the one on the Pro Track and Professional Mk.IV, but instead of having Reynolds across the angled "531" lettering, it has a gold star on the side (and I gather this goes for the other side). Never seen this one before:
https://www.jaysmarine.com/Raleigh_Cat_75_7_LG.jpg

Gran Sport is the same as the Track and Pro MkIV:
https://www.jaysmarine.com/Raleigh_Cat_75_8_LG.jpg

Super Course uses the standard horizontal "butted frame tubes" decal:
https://www.jaysmarine.com/Raleigh_Cat_75_9_LG.jpg


Take care,

-Kurt

T-Mar

Oh, so very true! Many of the old school framebuilders were notorious for not rotating their stock. When a new stock of decals arrived, they would often be thrown in a drawer on top of the old decals. It could be years before the old decals got used up. And you often can't go by catalog pics either, as these were often made in early fall, using mock-ups, to ensure availability at the fall trade shows.

The company name change to TI Reynolds reportedly took place in 1977, so I'd assume that year was the introduction of decals with the TI reference, though it is comflicts with the OP's 1974 International decal.

The earliest objective case I've seen with the gold bar at the bottom was in 1974, but it may has existed earlier.

nlerner

Here's another example: From a mid 70s Dawes Galaxy, probably a 1977 according to the catalogue posted on bulgier.net. Note that the frame sticker indicates straight gauge 531 (and it has the TI gold bar), but this frame takes a 27.0mm post (supplied by Stacey--thanks!). T-Mar surmised that this frame was mislabeled or reamed out. It is reasonably light--a 25" frame set up as a fixie with 700c wheels, it weighs in at a shade over 21lbs.

Neal

nlerner

Okay, you can see I'm slightly obsessed with this project. I was scanning the Wool Jersey galleries for 1974 bikes built with Reynolds 531, and here's a link to a Whitcomb. Note that the decal looks to be the same as on my '74 International w/ gold TI band on the bottom.

https://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/...5/Witcomb7.jpg

Neal

cyclotoine

It's hard to be sure about the exact year of my corky (which I talk about a lot and have never seen) but it came with a 1971 rear derailleur and had the pre 1974 nuovo record front mech, it sported the gold border but lacked the registered trade mark logo, apparently this decal is somewhat rare.

GreenBear

Hi folks,
A general question about Reynolds 531 decals....
At what point were the decals added to the frames?
Were they only added by the frame builders at time of manufacture?
Or were they added by the dealers at the time of bike assembly?

Best Wishes,

Green Bear

mswantak

And they wonder why my hair is falling out...

T-Mar

The Whitcomb is gorgeous, to the point where it may be a restoration and the decal a replacement. One of the additional problems these days is that it is so easy to reproduce decals, that the originality of just about anything can come under suspicion. No offense meant, Mike.

I dug back through some literature and found the reference to the 1977 name change in The Custom Bicycke by Kolin and de la Rosa, "In 1977 the Reynolds Tube Company, Limited changed their name to TI Reynolds because they make more than just bicycle tubes." The Raleigh history on Retro-Raleighs mentions the same date, so I've always assumed it to be correct. Perhaps I'm just too logical in assuming that the the name change would have been reflected on the decals at the same time? But I can't reason why they would have used TI Reynolds on a decal prior to the name change of the company.

nlerner

I just looked at the pdf of the 1978 Raleigh catalog that I downloaded from retroraleighs.com, and it does NOT show the use of TI Reynolds on the decal. Instead, the 531 decal is as shown in post #5 on this thread. Okay, now I'm really wondering about the age of my International or the authenticity of its Reynolds decal. There's a whole lot of confusion going on.

Neal

cyclotoine

I have 1975 jeunet that was repainted in 1985. Only after I started my reynolds decal research did I go back to look at the decal and know that the painter used a current transfer and not an original, because they Ti reynolds... It is possible your international was repainted in the 80s when reynolds frames were still more or less cutting edge technology so the investment in new paint made a lot of sense to anyone.... perhaps?

USAZorro

More Raleigh madness. My '78 SuperCourse does have the TI at the bottom, but then again, that's a straight-across version.

nlerner

Okay, we have imprecise catalogues, random practices at the factory and in the bike shop, refinishing and relabeling--if I had any hair left on my head, I'd be pulling it out (and sending it to mswantak).

Neal

GreenBear

My 1977 Raleigh Super Course, has never had a Reynolds decal. I know this because I bought it brand new 30 years ago/am the original owner.
However, according to the catalog (see Retro Raleighs), it is constructed of Reynolds 531 main tubes and it should have the decal for Reynolds 531 Plain Gauge Tubes.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroral...er-course.html

For those of you who have original paint/decals.....
Was your Reynolds decal applied on top of the entire paint job or was it applied under the final sealer coat?

For my SuperCourse, I am wondering if....
A) Factory was supposed to add the decal and for whatever reason did not.
B) Dealer was supposed to add the decal and for whatever reason did not.
C) Dealer removed the decal before placing the bike for sale. (There are no scratches)
D) Other?

Anyone have any thoughts?

Best Wishes,
Green Bear

cudak888 

The catalogue photos are up. Note the strange 531 decal on the Competition!

-Kurt

cyclotoine

Kurt, do you mean to say the one actually on the bike in the photo has this star because I can't see those, just the graphic at the top which all look the same aside from the last one, unless I am missing something. Also notice the lack or a registered trade mark logo, but again this is just on the graphic and the decals on the bikes could tell a different story, but of course you cannot see that side of the decal in any of these photos.

T-Mar

In an effort to provide some measure of objectitivity on this subject, I have researched my Reynolds literature and Reynolds ads from 1970s cycling magazines. By using only Reynolds' literature and ads, hopefully we can eliminate cases of incorrect decals applied to bicycles by framebuilders and restorers. Of course, this all hinges on the assumption that Reynolds used the current and correct decal images in their ads and literature.

Here are my findings:

1973 and earlier: Decals with thin gold border.

1974: First appearance of decal with gold bar at bottom. Text within gold bar states: " Manufactured by REYNOLDS TUBE CO. LTD. Birmingham, England"

1976: First appearance of decal, same as 1974, but with addition of TI symbol at left hand side of gold bar.

1977: First appearance of decal, same as 1977, but "REYNOLDS TUBE CO. LTD." replaced by "TI REYNOLDS LIMITED".

Based on the above, the only one of the OP's bicycles which seems to have an inappropriate decal is the 1974 International. The decal is too modern and would appear to be a replacement.