CF4L

I have a line on picking one of these up. It would be high in my budget range, but it seems like something I shouldn't pass up... so does anyone know anything about them? anyone have one? let me know...

here is the B-stone catalogue for this bike:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/1987/index.htm

The one I'm looking at is nearly mint.

JunkYardBike

Well, if it's anything like this one that recently sold on eBay, and it's less expensive, you can always try it out. If you don't like it, list on eBay for a profit!

CF4L

Not that similar actualy.. the one I'm looking at is an '87 and is almost full Suntout Surberbe Pro. It is the first year of Look Pedals (maybe 2nd.. not sure) and has aero brake cables. Its a very nice ride.. check sheldon's page for pics...

unworthy1

Nearly mint, top-of-the-range back in '87, and Superbe Pro...what's not to love?
maybe just the price. Still, given the lust for RB-1s, seems like you could *probably* sell it and break even, if you hated it.

JunkYardBike

What's uninspiring is the frame tubing: double butted 4130. I had a RB-2 with triple butted Ishiwata tubes, and I liked the ride, but 4130 might feel a bit dead. Then again, never rode a Grand Velo, and geometry makes all the difference. If you're not buying it to ride, it's still probably a good investment as Bridgestone's have a cult following (which is likely the reason it's at the high end of your budget).

Here's a recent C&V thread on the mystique that is Bridgestone https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ht=bridgestone

n4zou

Here is my 1987 Grand Velo.



I purchased it at estate auction. It was hanging from the rafters in the garage along with several other bikes. This was the only bike missing its decals. The other bikes were custom-built racing bikes with sponsor decals. I figure this is the first bike this fellow had and as Bridgestone did not sponsor him he removed them or ordered it without decals.

andre nickatina

I've got a Grand Velo NJS Keirin frame sitting in my basement right now, not sure of the year. From what I've researched, it was Bridgestone's top of the line frame or close to it. Mine isn't standard 4130 though, I believe it's Tange Champion No. 2 tubing (equivalent to Reynolds 531???)

unworthy1

[QUOTE=JunkYardBike]What's uninspiring is the frame tubing: double butted 4130. I had a RB-2 with triple butted Ishiwata tubes, and I liked the ride, but 4130 might feel a bit dead.
But 4130 is just the metallurgic name for "Chrome-moly steel", IIRC. So, without researching the bridgestone catalog, I'd guess that they were getting the tubes drawn from some outfit other than the "namebrands" of Tange or Ishiwata in 1987, and didn't/couldn't credit the supplier. it's DB chrome-moly, so depending on the tubing guages should ride JUST LIKE the same frame built of Tange Champion or Ishiwata 022...or for that matter Columbus SL.

JunkYardBike

Valid point. See here for data on the tubing they used in 1987. It was supplied by Ishiwata. I had a 1988 RB-2 with triple butted cromoly (see diagram for thicknesses), and the catalogue indicates this tubing was also manufactured by Ishiwata.

The triple butted tubing on the top tube was 0.9/0.6/0.7, which looks to correspond closely with Ishiwata EX-F, which is very similar to Ishiwata 022, according to a chart I have but can't find the link to right now.

According to this same chart, Columbus SL and SLX is 0.9/0.6/0.9, but both are more than 100 grams lighter than Ishiwata 022.

The top three Ishiwata tubesets on the chart I have, Ishiwata unnamed, Ishiwata 017 and Ishiwata 019 are all double butted. So it may be one of these, though the "bottom" three tubesets from Ishiwata are also double butted (Magny-V, Magny-X, and MTB-D). I'd guess these latter to be mountain bike tubesets, and since the Grand Velo was their high end model that year, it's likely to have a tubeset comparable to one of the high end Ishiwatas.

What does this all mean? I have no idea! There's more to a frame than just the wall thickness and weight though - like the way it was heat treated. Here's a thread that discusses it more in depth than I ever could.

unworthy1

just to keep pounding on this topic...the materials used in Tange Champion, Ishiwata 0__, and Columbus SL (as well as some others like Reynolds 501) is all chrome-molydenum-steel and all cold drawn, seamless and double-butted, the dimensions/wall thicknesses and therefore weight will vary. What varies after that fact is the manufacturing method (cold-drawn, or rolled/seamed/welded) as well as wall thickness of various tubesets. Then there are other alloys, such as Reynolds 531 (DB seamless and cold drawn) but Manganese-molybdenum-steel, similar alloys were adopted by Ishiwata and Tange for their tubesets labelled "Magny-Something". These are not necessarily just for Mtn. bikes or Touring, the profile and weight are adjusted for the specific application, there are "Magny" sets for all sorts of frames, just as there are Reynolds sets for such. The next breakthrough in tubing tech was the trend (that Reynolds is credited starting) of drawing extremely thin tubing that was strengthened by various methods: heat, then air-hardening, chemical. All the other manufacturers got on board, so you see Ishiwata with light/thin tubes, Tange Prestige, so many Columbus varients I can't count them...as well as offerings from True Temper, Oria, Dedacchai, Excell (the metal composition also changed as the demands increased, new fine-tuned alloys of Chrome-moly were developed)...and then there was the multi-butted trend that Miyata may have begun: triple, quad...one last note: the weights are usually as published by the manufacturer and some are more accurate/truthful than others.