Sammyboy

Myself and Ziemas have been chewing over a little problem he has. He can't get hold of a vintage touring frame in Latvia. Now, I sent him an old Carlton frame with the right sort of geometry, but he was hoping for something with double eyelets at the back for rack and fenders to mount seperately, and with the little brazeons up near the brake bridge for the rack to attach.

I started looking around, and my Raleigh Royal doesn't have them. Neither does the 70's Mercian that Hilary Stone sold the other day (that made me cry with desire). Neither do the 70's Galaxys on eBay. 90's Galaxys, by comparison, have both, and cantilevers, as opposed to centrepulls on the older ones (and my 80's Royal). Does anyone know when these started to be added to tourers? Is there some hope of Ziemas finding something nice and old with the brazeons, or is it a more recent thing?

USAZorro

There's always Rene Herse.

nlerner

I was thinking that, too! Those French bikes from the 1930s were full of integrated rack and fender attachments: https://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/i...eyhandFull.jpg

What did you say your budget was, Sammy?

Neal

T-Mar

As long as he isn't overly concerned with weight, a boom era Peugeot UE8 should do the trick. They are fairly common and have the prerequisite rack tabs and a relaxed geometry. Gitane had the Alpine and the more upscale Gran Tourisme. Japanese touring bicycles started appearing in the late 1970s with these features, notably the Miyata Gran Touring and Centurion Pro Tour.

wahoonc

I think you may need to look for a French touring frameset of the era. I know when I special ordered my Bob Jackson frameset in 1975 I had to specify which braze ons I wanted. A couple of years earlier I had a inexpensive french "tour" bike (Lucien Michard if memory serves me) that had the full complement of braze ons. FWIW I have what we have determined to be a 1975-76 Dawes Galaxy frameset and the only braze ons are the cable guides, light boss and one set of eyelets front and rear. Does Ziemas have access to a frame builder that could do some extra braze ons for him? I recall having it done one time and the cost wasn't exorbitant at the time.

Aaron

Sammyboy

I don't have a budget - it's not something I'm looking for! I gave the frame away for nothing, but I'm trying to help Ziemas determine whether what he's looking for even really exists. It's become a really interesting question for me. Look at the pics below, of my Raleigh, Hilary's Mercian (dribble), and some Galaxys. 4 nice bikes, all without braze-ons of this sort.

erikasberg

My guess would be that although the french constructeurs have been adding loads of braze-ons for at least 50 years the mainstream bike companies did not start doing so until the early 1980´s on bikes like Trek 720/520, Bridgestone, some Miyatas, Specialized Expedition etc. My Galaxy from late 80´s has them all but in the 1984 catalogue it doesn´t seem to have neither canti studs nor a lot of braze-ons.
/Erik

Sammyboy

That Mercian made me suddenly understand why people get so excited about Randonneur bikes. I was gonna buy it, but then it got expensive.

silversmith

Sammy has such good taste in bikes!




If you need to paint a frame, and it isn't collectible, then you may as well add the braze ons you like.

Brazing on shifter bosses, water bottle bosses and rack eyelets is easy with an inexpensive Mapp gas torch. I use the same 65% silver solder I use for working on jewelry.

Cyclist0383

No, as there are no frame builders here in Latvia. What I do have access to are cheap, high quality vintage lightweights. As I told Sammyboy, the other day I came across a vintage Ciocc frame, fork, and headset in excellent condition for $55. Yet there are no touring bikes to be found....

cyclotoine

cantilevers, double eyelets, etc started to become commonplace in the Mid-90s. If I was looking for an actual touring bike I would be looking at mid 80's onward. Front braze-ons are not necessary but the I prefer the rear ones to using clamps. I don't know if you can find japanese bikes there but that is where the cheep touring bikes are. Miyata, Nishiki, Univega etc etc....

frameteam2003

I know just what your looking for as my Sterling tandem has them.Braze on for different things as racks and guards were added as pre customer order I think.The eyelets on my 50 claud butler were brazed to the drop outs not made with them as I stripped and painted the frame and could see the braze line.
This old 30s from from Devon area has a number of braze ons


Adding what is needed may be the simpliest way to get what is needed
I think you hit the nail on the head with the double eyelets being a recent thing

Sammyboy

Ziemas, if the braze ons are important, I'm sure we can work something out. It seems like if you can get cheap vintage bikes, which I can make money on, and I can find you a nice touring bike with the braze-ons, which won't be super cheap, but should be do-able, we can come up with some sort of trade.

MichaelW

F.W Evans bought many of the French innovations to the UK cycle-touring market in the 1930s. His bikes were well appointed with brazeons and gears.

fender1

If possible look for a mid-80's Panasonic touring bike. I just sold one on the 'bay and it came w/eyelets for fender & racks, cable guide braze ons rack & water bottle bosses and canti brakes. It was a very nice touring frame and Panasonic as a brand is usually of high quality, though they are often overlooked as they are not a marqui maker (for most).

Blue Order

Mid-eighties, I'd say. Classic 80s Touring Rigs

cruentus

+1 I have a friend who is a welder by trade. If I have an old frame that needs paint, and doesn't have any collector value, I have whatever I want added to the frame before I paint it.

Sammyboy

I'll be unlikely to find those Japanese frames here, and shipping from the States would be even more prohibitive for poor old Ziemas.

Blue Order

If there are any frame builders in Latvia, they should be able to add anything he wants. Not sure how that works out compared to shipping a frame with braze-ons; probably about the same cost.

EDIT: I would guess the cost for shipping a frameset to Latvia would be about double the cost of domestic shipping, which would put it in the $60 range. That's a lot cheaper than getting a framebuilder to do it. I would guess that shipping would have to be 5 or 6 times domestic rates before a framebuilder is the cheaper route.

Blue Order

What size frame does Ziemas ride?

ollo_ollo

A Motobecane Grand Touring would have the braze ons he is looking for, although it only holds two water bottles. I have a 53 cm GT that I would donate to the cause. I stripped off the Stronglight triple crank & Weinmann brakes for other projects. It now has a SunTour Cyclone double & Raleigh branded Weinmann center pulls. Might not be to expensive if shipped without wheels. Don

Blue Order

Depends on the year. The one you have is from the years when they elongated the chainstays and added a few brazeons (although not all of the brazeons that the full-on touring bikes offered). My '77 GT (earlier than yours) doesn't have any brazeons, and the chainstays aren't any longer than chainstays on other bikes.

Cyclist0383

Thanks for all the ideas and offers. I ride between 58 and 60cm frames. I'm now following a few leads for some frames that might be good for me. At this point it's a wait and see game.....

Blue Order

Did you ever find a frame?

Cyclist0383

I found a vintage cyclocross frame which I adapted a Tubus rack to.