Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-04-07, 08:49 PM   #1
engo
The spirit is willing...
Thread Starter
 
engo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa, ON
Bikes: 2013 custom, 1994 Marinoni Special, 1934 Macleans Featherweight, 1984 Bertrand, 2011 self-built custom
Posts: 287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sturmey Archer hubs and chains?

I am interested in putting a Sturmey Archer 3 speed SW (1958) hub on my bike and I'm having trouble with the compatibility between the chain and the cog on the hub. The teeth on the cog are a touch too far apart to mesh well with the chain.

Not sure what the chain is, but it works fine with the Williams c34 style chainrings on the front of the bike, and worked well with the Shimano 5 speed freewheel that used to be on the back.

Is there a difference between the chains used for Sturmey Archer hubs and those used with other gear systems? If so, do chainrings compatible with the Williams c34 come in the same pitch?

Hope someone knows what I'm dealing with here. I've taken the hub apart, and aside from being a bit dry, the parts all seem in good shape. I'm looking forward to giving it a go on this bike!

Thanks,
Neil
engo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-07, 09:17 PM   #2
roughrider504
Senior Member
 
roughrider504's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Orleans
Bikes:
Posts: 1,214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Your probialy trying to use a 3/32 chain with the 1/8 cog. You'll need a 1/8 chain.
roughrider504 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-07, 10:14 PM   #3
engo
The spirit is willing...
Thread Starter
 
engo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa, ON
Bikes: 2013 custom, 1994 Marinoni Special, 1934 Macleans Featherweight, 1984 Bertrand, 2011 self-built custom
Posts: 287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You know, I think you're right! Thanks.

Do you know if the 1/8" chain will work will work with the narrow chainring, or will I be able to find a new narrower Sturmey Archer cog?

Cheers,
Neil
engo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-07, 10:28 PM   #4
jjvw
MFA
 
jjvw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Denver
Bikes: 1973 Italvega Nouvo Record; 1965 Hercules; 1982-83 Schwinn Mystery MTB
Posts: 1,187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
An 1/8" chain will work on a 3/32" chainring. I am not aware of narrower S/A cogs. There is always the possibilty of a modified shimano cassette cog. But it's easier just to buy a BMX chain.
jjvw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-07, 11:43 PM   #5
coelcanth
hunter, gatherer
 
coelcanth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
if your hub uses the common three spline driver rather than the older threaded driver, you should be able to find 3/32" cogs.. sturmey-archer still makes them and they are available from harriscyclery.com
coelcanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-07, 01:13 AM   #6
Sammyboy
The Legitimiser
 
Sammyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Southampton, UK
Bikes: Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
Posts: 4,847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If the teeth on the cog appear to far apart, then it's not a 1/8th or 3/32nds thing, because that's chain width. If the teeth on the cog were too close together, I'd diagnose chain stretch, but that's not the case either. I suspect aliens.
Sammyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-07, 09:53 AM   #7
engo
The spirit is willing...
Thread Starter
 
engo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa, ON
Bikes: 2013 custom, 1994 Marinoni Special, 1934 Macleans Featherweight, 1984 Bertrand, 2011 self-built custom
Posts: 287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I initially suspected the pitch of the teeth differed between the chainring and the cog, but this was a faulty premise. In reality, the chain is not wide enough to seat properly on the cog, just as roughrider initially suggested.

However, this aliens thing may have merit too....

hmm.

Thanks to all for your words of advice.
engo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-07, 03:57 PM   #8
MnHPVA Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Bikes:
Posts: 754
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
1/8" width chain will run fine on narrower rings. SRAM, Shimano and IKT all make cogs to fit the SA hub and work with 3/32" chain. Newer SunRace/Sturmey Archer ones will too.

I sold 25 22T Shimano and IKT cogs last year, to people gearing down their 3, 4 and 5 speed SAs. Shimano are bright chrome and the IKTs are a darker finish like the older SAs

For those who need really low gears:
SA makes a 25t to fit the 8 speed hubs. The 8 speeds have a 63mm driver so the cogs can't be directly mounted on an older hub.

Yesterday I made a fixture to accurately center an older 18t SA cog in relation to a new SA 25t, for the purpose of TIG welding them together. The result turned out so nice, that I ordered several 25s today. I'll be selling them, but till I'm in production mode I won't know what to charge.



PS. Good luck with that SW. The SW (Seldom Works) was introduced in 1954 as a cheaper, lighter replacement for the AW (Always Works). Big mistake, they re-introduced the AW in 1958.

http://my.ohio.voyager.net/~bdhayes/sa/sw.htm is a site that explains quite a bit about the problems. I may have a source of SW pawls. I'd recommend replacing them yearly.

Last edited by MnHPVA Guy; 03-06-07 at 04:08 PM.
MnHPVA Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-07, 05:54 PM   #9
thebikeguy
Smiling and Waving
 
thebikeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Merrickville,Canada
Bikes: -
Posts: 364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You need to replace the chainring and chain. If I am to understand, this bike used to have derailler gears? The chain for this type of gearing is too narrow to work. You will also have to swap out the chainring because the chain won't work on your existing one. Simple swap.
thebikeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-07, 01:37 AM   #10
Sammyboy
The Legitimiser
 
Sammyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Southampton, UK
Bikes: Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
Posts: 4,847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thebikeguy, he doesn't need to replace the chainring. Simply replacing the chain is enough. A wider chain runs fine on a narrower ring.
Sammyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-07, 04:13 AM   #11
Stacey
Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP)
 
Stacey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Bikes:
Posts: 9,162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My gut is telling me you need to remove the valve stem caps, roll the old bike to the tip, put a new bike in its place and install the previously removed valve stem caps.
__________________
Stacey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-07, 09:12 AM   #12
engo
The spirit is willing...
Thread Starter
 
engo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ottawa, ON
Bikes: 2013 custom, 1994 Marinoni Special, 1934 Macleans Featherweight, 1984 Bertrand, 2011 self-built custom
Posts: 287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think I'll start with a new chain and go from there, stopping when things work. The bike probably originally had the SA three speed, and sometime in the early 60s was upgraded to a Shimano 10sp derailleur system, so it now has a double chainring up front. I am taking it back to basics......

Except for the super bad ass valve stem covers I have.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Aa111sc.jpg (77.0 KB, 3 views)
engo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-07, 06:50 PM   #13
tolfan
Novist senior member
 
tolfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Amish Country
Bikes: have about 30 bikes right now
Posts: 1,519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I suspect aliens.[/QUOTE]
if it aint the aliens its those damn gremlins
tolfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:43 AM.