Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 51
  1. #1
    Don't call me sir cmdr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    My Bikes
    1954 Holdsworth 3 speed, 1969 Bob Jackson, 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred (retired), 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 2004 Santa Cruz Blur Classic, 2012 Specialized P3, 2013 Specialized Roubaix Expert Disc
    Posts
    616
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Bicycle Liberation

    Okay, I have an ethics question to pose to you folks.

    My girlfriend's downstairs neighbor has a Trek mountain bike frame and wheels sitting in the yard accruing rust on it's components. It has been there for as long as she has lived there.
    I have tried to ask him about it, but he actively avoids talking to us. (argument about him neglecting his dog.)
    I'm sure that you can figure out what my quandry is.

    Is it bicycle liberation, or is it just theft?

    I would offer him money for it if he would just answer the door.
    1969 Bob Jackson, 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 2004 Santa Cruz Blur, 2011 Specialized P-3, 2013 Salsa Colossal Ti

  2. #2
    FalconLvr
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    SW Virginia
    My Bikes
    62 Falcon, 58 Raleigh Lenton Gran Prix, 74 Raleigh Pro, 75 Raleigh Int, 75 Raleigh Comp, 76 Colnago Super, 75 Crescent, 80 Peugeot PX10, plus others too numerous to mention!
    Posts
    1,175
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Seeing as how you are not on good terms with him, it would be theft with police involvment, count on it!

  3. #3
    Senior Member ollo_ollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Stayton, OR
    My Bikes
    Torelli, Bianchi Trofeo, De Rosa, Specialized Expedition Touring, Colnago Cross, Motobecane Grand Jubile & Grand Record, Miyata 710, 2 Titans, Raleigh Super Course, 3Rensho
    Posts
    3,476
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Theft

  4. #4
    Senior Member fender1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Berwyn PA
    My Bikes
    I hate bikes!
    Posts
    4,426
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Theft and a further inflaming of a bad neighbor situation. I would stay away, as much as it pains you to watch a perfectly good bike rot into the ground. Imagine the joy he will get when he sees you with it and reports you to the police for theft. Never underestimate people's abilty to hold a grudge and exact some stupid form of revenge.There are a lot of jerks in the world.

  5. #5
    Don't call me sir cmdr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    My Bikes
    1954 Holdsworth 3 speed, 1969 Bob Jackson, 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred (retired), 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 2004 Santa Cruz Blur Classic, 2012 Specialized P3, 2013 Specialized Roubaix Expert Disc
    Posts
    616
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This was my thought as well. But it is hard to see it just rotting there. Thanks, I needed some moral bolstering.
    1969 Bob Jackson, 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 2004 Santa Cruz Blur, 2011 Specialized P-3, 2013 Salsa Colossal Ti

  6. #6
    Lanky Lass East Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Take a deep breath, and ask--What would Sheldon do?
    My Bikes
    Nishiki Nut! International, Pro, Olympic 12, Sport mixte, and others too numerous to mention.
    Posts
    21,575
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Does she have a landlord she can complain to? As in, "Can you get the guy downstairs to get that junk out of the front yard"? Try to catch him when he moves the bike, offer him some cash.

    Might work. Might not.

    East Hill
    ___________________________________________________
    TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    7,728
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I believe the authorities call this "probable cause for locking you up with an assortment of junkies and winos." Heck, it might even earn you a free trip to Guantanamo if your neighbor is particularly crafty!

    Neal

  8. #8
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Je suis ici
    Posts
    5,043
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sounds like he is a bit of an arse, so I'd just avoid dealing with him if at all possible.
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

    Waste your money! Buy my comic book!

  9. #9
    Non Tribuo Anus Rodentum and off to the next adventure (RIP) Stacey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    9,163
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Tape a $20 bill with a stickie note on it on the inside of his screen door asking him to see you about the bike, hinting at the possibility of more pictures of dead presidents if you think it's worth it.

    What's the most you're out... $20 if he's a real jerk and just pockets the bill.

  10. #10
    one word, not two braingel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    se portland
    Posts
    825
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I actually think that this sort of thing is okay, but I wouldn't do it in this case because he's sure to see you with it at one point. In my opinion no one has the right to waste something just because they own it...if someone puts a bike out in the trash you'd have no problem taking it, but if it's been in their yard for 2 years rusting without having been ridden once, why is that not fair game? If you think it's still worth something in the state it's in, leave some cash. Just don't get caught, and in this particular case that probably means not taking the bike when you live right next to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by redneckwes
    Road bikes seem to live in packs. Even if they don't have riders, they do gather in groups. They spend a lot of time standing around, looking for $$ to be thrown at them

  11. #11
    Don't call me sir cmdr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    My Bikes
    1954 Holdsworth 3 speed, 1969 Bob Jackson, 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred (retired), 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 2004 Santa Cruz Blur Classic, 2012 Specialized P3, 2013 Specialized Roubaix Expert Disc
    Posts
    616
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't live next to him (my g-friend does). He would never see me with it.
    1969 Bob Jackson, 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 2004 Santa Cruz Blur, 2011 Specialized P-3, 2013 Salsa Colossal Ti

  12. #12
    Dolce far niente bigbossman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Northern CA
    Posts
    10,809
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by braingel
    ...no one has the right to waste something just because they own it......
    Yes, they do. And taking something without permission that someone else owns is theft. Period. No matter how righteous your cause seems to be.

    No one has the right to appropriate the property of others because they think they know best how to utilize it.

    Moreover, we're talking about an old and rusty Trek mtb frame and wheels. Hell, you can pick up a complete Antelope for $20 just about anywhere. Is it really worth stealing, AND aggravating an already strained neighbor relation?
    "Love is not the dying moan of a distant violin, it’s the triumphant twang of a bedspring."

    S. J. Perelman

  13. #13
    * vpiuva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,458
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Instead of taping $20's to his door you could buy a cheap plastic sheet or cover and put it over the bike for him.

    But he's not going to like you anyway.

  14. #14
    Displaced Southerner polara426sh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Webster, NY
    My Bikes
    1967 Peugeot UO-8, 1984 Torpado Beta, 1985 Trek 300, 1989 Dave Moulton Fuso FRX, '90s Hardrock x2, '90s Norco Pinnacle, Focus MB-350 IRO SSFGGB
    Posts
    254
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Do you have any friends that he hasn't met? If so get one of them to stop by and talk to him about it.

  15. #15
    Señor Member USAZorro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Carlisle, PA
    My Bikes
    1954 Hetchins M.O., 1959 Viking Severn Valley, 1970 Raleigh Pro, 1972 Fuji "The Finest", 1974 Raleigh Superbe&Comp, 1976 Raleigh Team Pro, 1994 Trek 830 MTB, 2000 Bob Jackson Arrowhead, Unicycle
    Posts
    13,034
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by polara426sh
    Do you have any friends that he hasn't met? If so get one of them to stop by and talk to him about it.
    +1. This seemed the obvious course of action from the outset.
    The search for inner peace continues...

  16. #16
    Don't call me sir cmdr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    My Bikes
    1954 Holdsworth 3 speed, 1969 Bob Jackson, 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred (retired), 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 2004 Santa Cruz Blur Classic, 2012 Specialized P3, 2013 Specialized Roubaix Expert Disc
    Posts
    616
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    All this feedback has been what I would expect. It is all good advice.
    I would like to bring to the table now "abandoned" bikes and the concept of bicycle liberation.

    You have all seen those bikes; chained for weeks or months to a parking meter or signpost. Eventually pieces of them disappear in the night. Until, one day they are but bared skeletons with fading paint.

    At what point do you start considering bringing your tools along with you on your nightly sojourn? Do you watch passively as it is stripped?.. maybe gently shaking your head.

    I like this debate on property. I understand that at some point it will become inappropriate for this forum and should be bumped maybe to the politics forum?. Until then, I prefer chewing through it here.
    1969 Bob Jackson, 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 2004 Santa Cruz Blur, 2011 Specialized P-3, 2013 Salsa Colossal Ti

  17. #17
    The Improbable Bulk Little Darwin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Wilkes-Barre, PA
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    7,285
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I share the opinion of Eric Schlosser in his book "Reefer Madness" where he proposes we should minimize the number of laws, and ensure they are strongly enforced.

    Theft is one of those laws I think should be retained, and strongly enforced.

    While I appreciate the motives reflected in this thread, it is the exceptions that make laws complicated. Making exceptions is the slippery slope to strangeness I don't think we as a society need to spend our time dealing with.

    Let me make my point with some terrible examples.

    Using the original post as an example. The bike is unused and rusting...

    If we make an exception for amount of time, how do we prove that it wasn't used at least once in the time frame... And if the person is in a coma, and awakens, why should they not have their bike when they awaken just because they were out of it for too long?

    If we make an exception for wasting something... I have to agree with an earlier poster that there is not, and should not be, a precedent for requiring adequate usage of something. Otherwise museums wouldn't exist, wasting perfectly good items (some bicycles) that would be put to better use. Lance's bike in the Smithsonian would undoubtedly get more use if I owned it (does anyone know what size, it looked about right for me).

    If we make an exception for eyesores, then we once again have the government (or individuals?) determining what others should do with their stuff. Some things people do intentionally in the name of art, I find ugly, but they do have the right to assault my senses as much as I have the right to move on. I have seen rusty bikes as art (it seems I recently saw a thread here about bicycle gardens).

    These are just a few examples, but anything that makes it easier for me to control an item that had belonged to someone else, the harder it is for me to hold onto the stuff I have worked hard to buy (or find )

    I have no significant issue with the OP's motive to liberate the bike, but I see no way to justify it legally without potentially infringing on my right to control my stuff.
    Slow Ride Cyclists of NEPA

    People do not seem to realize that their opinion of the world is also a confession of character.
    - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  18. #18
    You Know!? For Kids! jsharr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Just NW of Richardson Bike Mart
    My Bikes
    '05 Trek 1200 / '90 Trek 8000 / '? Falcon Europa
    Posts
    6,082
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Get a buddy to go over and say he is with "mumble something that sounds like Salvation Army" collecting donations and ask for the bike.
    Are you a registered member? Why not? Click here to register. It's free and only takes 27 seconds! Help out the forums, abide by our community guidelines.
    Quote Originally Posted by colorider View Post
    Phobias are for irrational fears. Fear of junk ripping badgers is perfectly rational. Those things are nasty.

  19. #19
    Lanky Lass East Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Take a deep breath, and ask--What would Sheldon do?
    My Bikes
    Nishiki Nut! International, Pro, Olympic 12, Sport mixte, and others too numerous to mention.
    Posts
    21,575
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I must throw in a real life example here.

    About four months ago, someone in another section brought the Registry section a broken box. Why did it get brought to my section? Because it had two full bags of cents in it. There was no address, no identifying mark on the bags.

    These things sat in the Registry vault for MONTHS. They could not be tracked, no one ever called and asked, "Have you got our $20 in pennies, because we'd like them back".

    We finally decided to send them to the "Dead Letter Office". It cost us FAR more to send them there then it would have cost just to take them home. But the pennies were not ours. No one will ever claim them. But that doesn't justify taking them home.

    Near to me, there are two bikes just sitting on the edge of a property. At least one of them is an older ladies model, and I can't figure out what the other is, because things are starting to grow up around both bikes. Every once in a while I think--I should go over there and ask the owner if they'd like to sell those bikes. And one of these days I will .

    Are you certain that you can't just have a buddy go over to the owner and ask if he'd like ten bucks?

    Little Darwin: I would just like to point out that McDave and I were both contributors to the bicycle gardening thread, but McDave won in a landslide.

    East Hill
    ___________________________________________________
    TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...

  20. #20
    Coyote!
    Guest
    >>> I would offer him money for it if he would just answer the door.

    Surely you can catch him outside sometime and yell, "Dude! Would'ya take 5 quid for the frame 'n wheels?". Unless he's Kramer, he leaves the crib occasionally, right?

    Oh. . .and yes, it's theft.

  21. #21
    Don't call me sir cmdr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    My Bikes
    1954 Holdsworth 3 speed, 1969 Bob Jackson, 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred (retired), 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 2004 Santa Cruz Blur Classic, 2012 Specialized P3, 2013 Specialized Roubaix Expert Disc
    Posts
    616
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote!
    >>> I would offer him money for it if he would just answer the door.

    Surely you can catch him outside sometime and yell, "Dude! Would'ya take 5 quid for the frame 'n wheels?". Unless he's Kramer, he leaves the crib occasionally, right?

    Oh. . .and yes, it's theft.
    Not that he never leaves the house - he's never home. Hence the neglected dog thing. When he is home and I'm there, I knock on the door and he doesn't answer. Oh well, it's not important to me. I just had this thought rolling around in my head and wanted to pick other brains for opinions.

    And just for information, I have never "liberated" a bike. I found a gaspipe beater in the garbage once though - That one I "took responsibility" for, then donated to charity.
    1969 Bob Jackson, 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 2004 Santa Cruz Blur, 2011 Specialized P-3, 2013 Salsa Colossal Ti

  22. #22
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,209
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bigbossman
    No one has the right to appropriate the property of others because they think they know best how to utilize it.
    Ironic how our law abiding nation (forgive the ethnocentrism) was founded on this very violation.

    I say if you can convince the authorities and your neighbors that you have some sort of divine right to the bike, or the action somehow represents manifest destiny, you should go for it.

  23. #23
    Don't call me sir cmdr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    My Bikes
    1954 Holdsworth 3 speed, 1969 Bob Jackson, 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred (retired), 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 2004 Santa Cruz Blur Classic, 2012 Specialized P3, 2013 Specialized Roubaix Expert Disc
    Posts
    616
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JunkYardBike
    I say if you can convince the authorities and your neighbors that you have some sort of divine right to the bike, or the action somehow represents manifest destiny, you should go for it.
    Let me consult the scripture... Ahh yes, hear it is: The Book of Lance, Chap 7...
    1969 Bob Jackson, 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 2004 Santa Cruz Blur, 2011 Specialized P-3, 2013 Salsa Colossal Ti

  24. #24
    Senior Member randya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    in bed with your mom
    My Bikes
    who cares?
    Posts
    13,696
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    There is a guy in PDX who buys old bikes at garage sales and then locks them up around the neighborhood in highly visible locations, sort of an indy 'watch for bikes' or 'bikes belong' project. Some of them are actually pretty nice bikes, and they sit out in the weather, never get ridden and occassionally get stripped or stolen, but just because they seem lonely out there doesn't mean they aren't serving a purpose.

  25. #25
    K2ProFlex baby! ilikebikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    My response would have been something along the lines of: "Does your bike have computer controlled suspension? Then shut your piehole, this baby is from the future!"
    My Bikes
    to many to list
    Posts
    6,100
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Forget about the bike, Itll be nothing but trouble as your already on bad terms with the guy, but dont forget about the poor dog, I for one would kick someones door in to save an animal, law or no law, Ill do time for a helpless animal, no doubt.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •