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  1. #201
    rhm
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    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrock View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ricohman View Post

    Holy monkeynuts... how do you get the chain to make that jump between those rings there?
    Hey, I've been wondering about this setup myself... this was pretty common on touring bikes back in the 80's, when people understood these things, but I never did. What's it called (granny-and-a-half-step, or something? Sounds like an old folk dance!)? What's the theory, and does it live up to expectations?

    I ask because yesterday I took delivery of a fabulous 1984 touring bike (photos to come next week, I promise!) that is set up like this. Now, I grant that this is an old bike that hasn't been ridden in a while, so it'll take some adjusting; and since it's new to me I'll have to take the time to get to know it, but so far I'm not liking the way it shifts; too easy to drop into the granny when you don't want to. What do you think, will I get to like it?

  2. #202
    Senior Member melville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhm View Post
    Hey, I've been wondering about this setup myself... this was pretty common on touring bikes back in the 80's, when people understood these things, but I never did. What's it called (granny-and-a-half-step, or something? Sounds like an old folk dance!)? What's the theory, and does it live up to expectations?

    I ask because yesterday I took delivery of a fabulous 1984 touring bike (photos to come next week, I promise!) that is set up like this. Now, I grant that this is an old bike that hasn't been ridden in a while, so it'll take some adjusting; and since it's new to me I'll have to take the time to get to know it, but so far I'm not liking the way it shifts; too easy to drop into the granny when you don't want to. What do you think, will I get to like it?
    Half step plus granny was used to get small steps between gears with wide range 5 and 6 speed freewheels. It kinda died out when 7S became standard.

    Here's the idea: Say you're moving along in the middle ring and you think "I'm spinning a bit overmuch," your next higher gear is found by shifting to the big ring. Say you're in the big ring and the wind is in your favor after a corner, your next higher gear is a double shift to the middle ring and the next smaller cog. The half step means that the rings have half the effect of a rear derailleur shift. With a 14-34 FW, typical half-step needs a 4 or 5t difference in the chainrings.

    With 7S freewheels, the steps between cogs became reasonable enough that half-stepping became redundant. Also, rear index made double shifting relatively more dicey than it had been before.

    Racers gave up on half-step (no granny) in the late 60s, when the 144 BCD Campy cranks became widely available. Some manufacturers persisted into the 70s (Paramount) equipping the bikes with 49/52 rings.

  3. #203
    Senior Member BengeBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melville View Post
    Half step plus granny was used to get small steps between gears with wide range 5 and 6 speed freewheels.
    I had a touring bike set up with half-step plus granny gearing in the 80's and really liked it (I did this after learning about it from the writings of Frank Berto, technical editor of Bicycling Magazine back in the day); I set up a road bike with a triple this way in the early 90's.

    One advantage of half-step plus granny is that you ended up with lots of closely spaced, non-duplicative gearing. Also, because the outer chainring and the inner chainring were nearly the same size you ended up with front derailleur shifts that were really quick and easy to make...(except when you shifted down to the granny, when you likely were either going slow or getting ready to hit a hill anyway).

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerseybmx View Post
    my 1985 cannondale touring.. updated to my commuter/ tourer
    ST500? Model is on the driveside chainstay. I found one of these frames in the trash, built it up and traded to my B.I.L. I got a Peugot mtb in return.

  5. #205
    Senior Member ricohman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhm View Post
    Hey, I've been wondering about this setup myself... this was pretty common on touring bikes back in the 80's, when people understood these things, but I never did. What's it called (granny-and-a-half-step, or something? Sounds like an old folk dance!)? What's the theory, and does it live up to expectations?

    I ask because yesterday I took delivery of a fabulous 1984 touring bike (photos to come next week, I promise!) that is set up like this. Now, I grant that this is an old bike that hasn't been ridden in a while, so it'll take some adjusting; and since it's new to me I'll have to take the time to get to know it, but so far I'm not liking the way it shifts; too easy to drop into the granny when you don't want to. What do you think, will I get to like it?
    I think you will like it.
    The half step gearing as mentioned above, gives you a lot of usable closely spaced gearing.
    To tell you the truth I prefer this setup to my new RM Sherpa 30 touring bike which has loads of gear that I do not or cannot use (who needs 52-11 on a loaded bike?).

  6. #206
    1. get on 2. pedal
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    Finally have this bike in shape to take some garage door pics and post. 1984 Raleigh Alyeska, bought new after I graduated from college to find my baby blue Schwinn LeTour had been stolen out of the garage at my old house. The bike shop sold me hard on this bike but I still saw it as sort of a second-rate replacement for the LeTour, which had been my first real bike as a teenager and my true love. Plus I was living in a city that at the time wasn't so bike-friendly and the Alyeska ended up mostly sitting in my basement until recently, when due to a bunch of circumstances I rediscovered bicycling in a big way. After all the neglect this bicycle needed a lot of work - I was skeptical it could be saved and didn't know anything about vintage or classic bikes - I just thought it was old. Until I brought it in and saw the raised eyebrows among the bike mechanics. While the LBS was overhauling it I test-rode all sorts of new bikes as possible replacements. But when I got the Alyeska back - wow! It rode like the proverbial dream, plush as can be - better by far than most of the new expensive bikes I'd tried. Now I'm freshly, madly in love with this bike and ride it all over, especially as a morning coffee commuter on the days I'm on my own and not teaching. I've just put some extra elbow grease and finishing touches to it. I only wish I could get the spokes a bit shinier. Nothing really works on them. I imagine one day I'll just have them replaced and then the bike will have a new, bright "smile." For now I think it still looks pretty handsome. They truly don't make them like this anymore. I suppose that's how everyone feels about their vintage bikes.

    I'm so impressed by the bikes and knowledge in this forum. It has helped me get the bicycle to this point and appreciate it.




  7. #207
    rhm
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    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
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    Okay, how's this for a vintage touring bike:
    it's a Counterpoint Opus II!
    All the components date to late '83 or early '84. 27" rear wheel, 20" front. Took 'er for a 25 mile ride yesterday, my wife in the stoker seat (out front) and man, what a blast! Incredibly stable and comfortable, and no waiting for your riding partner at the top of the killer hill!
    I'm impressed with the quality of the build. Phil Wood hubs, Sugino cranks with Biopace rings, (first generation?) Deore derailleurs, Specialized pedals (not shown).... The frame has a lugged seat cluster, lugged BB cluster except for the bigger diameter downtube, which is fillet brazed on; and there's a lug where the top tube meets the steerer tube; the rest is fillet brazed, and very nicely done. Zefal pump painted the same color as the frame!

  8. #208
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    Peugeot UE-8

    Here's a new Peugeot UE-8 (1983?) from CL. All the original bits seem to be there. It's a nice rider too.
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  9. #209
    Randomhead
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    Yes, the bike was falling over.

    I built this frame as a touring bike in '81 or so. Don't ask me where the braze on rack mounts are, I dunno. I guess I wasn't thinking about that at the time. Over the years the paint has really taken a beating, maybe I'll put another water bottle cage on there and put some adjusters on for handlebar mounted shifters instead of the DT shifters. It has an eclectic selection of components to say the least. This is a classic case of a bike that has spent almost all of it's life in the garage, it probably has considerably less than 100 miles on it. I commuted on it for a very short time. I stopped when somebody offered to buy the parts off of it. An early vintage aficionado.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricohman View Post
    I am in no way bashing the resto of this fine looking bike but the handle bar goes against what the design originally called for. Long distance comfort.
    You could tour on a bar like that but I doubt you would.
    Okay, I changed it do drop bars--but that's to sell it!

    Neal


  11. #211
    like we used to say
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    Raleigh Alyeska

    Fender mockup with uncompleted tape.


    Last edited by pass the peas; 09-28-08 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Added photo of bike after final fender fit up.

  12. #212
    Member Stevie B's Avatar
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    1981 Miyata 1000

    Here's mine. Its a 1981 Miyata 1k.

    Stevie B
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  13. #213
    Senior Member ricohman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevie B View Post
    Here's mine. Its a 1981 Miyata 1k.

    Stevie B
    I have always wanted to add a Miyata to my collection.
    But they were not popular where I live. I have only seen a few in the last 25 years.

  14. #214
    Senior Member Bikedued's Avatar
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    I've found a few in the last month or so. The Gran Turismo is in a transition right now. It's getting black Scott ergo bars, dia compe GC aero brake levers, and shellac'd tan cork when I can find some. A few years ago you could walk into any LBS here, and find tan cork in different brands. Now there's nothing. Very odd IMHO.
    The Trek 520 pics are befores obviously. Just picked it up yesterday. Yes, I drove about 225 miles round trip to get it. With gas being cheap, it wasn't too bad. It was only $104 dollars local pickup only! He threw in a few extras for $20 more.

    1977(8?) Motobecane Grand Touring. Vitus 172 with GT luxe RD(Now has a Deore RD)



    1983 Fuji Touring Series III. This bike is a FINE rider. Road to work today. quad butted Valite and
    Mountech that shifts very well. Saddle was changed to a San Marco that came with the 520. Looks much better, and like sitting in your favorite comfy chair.



    1983 Univega Gran Turismo. Also a great bike. Rolls fast despite the fat 700's. Wheels
    were changed to C'Dale hybrid rims. Getting an ergo bar, aero levers, and amber shellac tan cork.



    Lastly, the favorite of the bunch. I will start on it after the Univega bars swap is done. 1985(serial number 215) but looks like an 86? 87 had frame color head tube I believe. Very cool bike that has seen some European tours during it's life. I may not be that adventurous, but I will ride it.







    Last edited by Bikedued; 01-02-09 at 06:29 PM.

  15. #215
    Senior Member ricohman's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Bikedued;8114061]I've found a few in the last month or so. The Gran Turismo is in a transition right now. It's getting black Scott ergo bars, dia compe GC aero brake levers, and shellac'd tan cork when I can find some. A few years ago you could walk into any LBS here, and find tan cork in different brands. Now there's nothing. Very odd IMHO.
    The Trek 520 pics are befores obviously. Just picked it up yesterday. Yes, I drove about 225 miles round trip to get it. With gas being cheap, it wasn't too bad. It was only $104 dollars local pickup only! He threw in a few extras for $20 more.

    1977(8?) Motobecane Gran Touring. Vitus 172 with GT luxe RD(Now has a Deore RD)



    1983 Fuji Touring Series III. This bike is a FINE rider. Road to work today. quad butted Valite and
    Mountech that shifts very well. Saddle was changed to a San Marco that came with the 520. Looks much better, and like sitting in your favorite comfy chair.



    1983 Univega Gran Turismo. Also a great bike. Rolls fast despite the fat 700's. Wheels
    were changed to C'Dale hybrid rims. Getting an ergo bar, aero levers, and amber shellac tan cork.



    Lastly, the favorite of the bunch. I will start on it after the Univega bars swap is done. 1985(serial number 215) but looks like an 86? 87 had frame color head tube I believe. Very cool bike that has seen some European tours during it's life. I may not be that adventurous, but I will ride it.







    You must like your bikes long.
    I do. I have ape like arms and legs so I like a 60+ frame that I can easily stand over but the seat post is usually only showing 3 or 4 inches.
    Nice and comfy this way! Nice bikes!

  16. #216
    Senior Member Bikedued's Avatar
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    I'm 6'1" with normal length legs, but a long torso and arms. A 56-58 which should fit me by most formulas, leaves my hands too close to my knees, and I can see if the front brake is aligned while riding, lol. A taller frame leaves me with 2-3 inches of post depending on saddle rail height, a slightly snug standover, and a comfortable riding position.
    I ride pretty sensibly, and have never landed on the top tube on any bike I've ever ridden. Knock on wood. With my bikes adjusted to a good fit, the bars hide the front axle almost dead on.,,,,BD
    Last edited by Bikedued; 01-02-09 at 07:58 PM.

  17. #217
    Senior Member Bikedued's Avatar
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    I got excited today, since the bike shop got in TWO colors of brown tone tape, lol. Salsa tan, and dark brown. I got the dark brown thinking it would look great with the brown B.15. I got home and had an "oh crap" moment. It turned out to be a nasty pinkish orange tone. I looked over at the can of Amber shellac, and said why not.

    I was not prepared for the color change! It turned a rich leather color, and the
    logo's looked like tooled designs. So, up went the brake hoods, and out came the brush. The tan color and aero levers just turned this into a really clean looking bike. No more cables to get tangled in either. I wanted charcoal housing, but all they had was black, and the pricey frost white. I got black, since the wheels are mostly black anyway. I am very happy with how the conversion turned out. The bar is an ergo Scott from my now deceased "05" S-4.

    Look at the before and after shot. Maybe they meant for it to have a coat or two of shellac?



    Last edited by Bikedued; 01-04-09 at 03:09 PM.

  18. #218
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    Here's mine, a 1982 Trek 720 frame.

  19. #219
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    Sorry about that.
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  20. #220
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    Don't know why those photos came through as thumbnails, after reducing their size. Here (hopefully) is an older pic before I changed the stem and seat.
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  21. #221
    Senior Moment Peter_B's Avatar
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    My 1972 or -73 Mondia Special used with a Carradice SQR Tour bag and an Ortlieb Ultimate Five Plus handlebar bag. Note the vintage Simplex lever front derailleur and the contemporary Shimano XTR rear derailleur, shifted by a vintage Simplex shifter. Other vintage parts are OMAS sealed bearing hubs (with Mavic OpenPro rims). CLB centerpull brakes and levers. GB handlebars and stem. Stronglight crankset, TA chainrings. Lyotard 45ter pedals. Gipiemma seatpost

  22. #222
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
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    Don't hate me because I have a bad camera.... but this thing rides nice and I'll be slapping panniers on it for the commute. I think it would make a decent tourer. I haven't taken too many pics of it yet anyway, because it's still in a state of flux. I just pulled it out of a dumpster a week before Christmas.

    1983 Raleigh Marathon



    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  23. #223
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pass the peas View Post
    That bike gives me wood.
    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  24. #224
    tuz
    tuz is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_B View Post
    My 1972 or -73 Mondia Special used with a Carradice SQR Tour bag and an Ortlieb Ultimate Five Plus handlebar bag. Note the vintage Simplex lever front derailleur and the contemporary Shimano XTR rear derailleur, shifted by a vintage Simplex shifter. Other vintage parts are OMAS sealed bearing hubs (with Mavic OpenPro rims). CLB centerpull brakes and levers. GB handlebars and stem. Stronglight crankset, TA chainrings. Lyotard 45ter pedals. Gipiemma seatpost
    That is COOL. Love it thanks for sharing
    I've been wanting to try one of those simplex rod shifters on my tourer but they are unfindable. It shifts ok?
    homebuilt commuter, mixte, road and track (+ Ryffranck road)
    bla bla blog

  25. #225
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter_B View Post
    My 1972 or -73 Mondia Special
    Outstanding mix - and quite startling to see XTR with a Simplex rod-actuated FD.

    Incidentally, what variant CLB centerpulls do you have mounted?

    Take care,

    -Kurt

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