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  1. #1
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    Q for the Raleigh experts......

    Just acquired a ladys 1960 Raleigh Superbe Sports Tourist.

    But some things do not 'add up', hence this....

    The hub date is 1960. It is a 4 speed but no BB oiler. The wheels appear to be SS but there is some rust on the braking area. And an oiler cover on the front hub. They sure do look like SS rims though, with SS spokes. Decals on the gear casing state 'All Steel Bicycle'. It has the old Raleigh brake cables with soldered ends and combined adjusters, and the gear cable guide is a bolt on.
    OK, a four speed 'fits in' here. But does the 'All steel bicycle' do the same?

    DBU is missing along with the lights, but the dynohub etc. says these have been removed.
    Serial number is 4572 AE, which indicates 1960.

    Still don't sound right to me though...

    Any thoughts anybody??

  2. #2
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    All steel bicycle was Raleigh's tag line. I am not sure when they did away with the BB oiler. I have several early 70's Raleigh's that don't have that on them. The Dynohub should be dated also.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
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    "Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
    Aluminum: barely a hundred
    Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
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  3. #3
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    If the rims are stainless, I'm fairly sure it'll say that on them (or at least it would on Dunlop rims). Even stainless, however, can get worn on the braking surfaces. The lack of a BB oiler is a bit of a surprise. Fwiw, my 1959 Phillips 3-speed has one, and my 1961 Lenton Grand Prix (which I've since sold) had one, too.

    Neal

  4. #4
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    Hi Neal, thanks for your thoughts. (I just enjoyed looking at some of your machines while I was eating my dinner!! Wow! Will go back for seconds later....) The rims do not say SS, but when I saw it first (On eBay) it looked scruffy, but the rims stood out, and I thought 'must be SS!'!! But I knew it was a Superbe, even missing the lights, DBU etc., But they obviously aren't SS now I can see closely! So now I've got it home and seen more detail I guess I should accept it at face. Missing mudflap, lights/wiring, leather saddle(?) rear rack + reflector, I still think it's cool. And worth saving from landfill.
    Still puzzled by the 'All Steel Bicycle' though! I thought that came sooner....
    Cheers, John F.

  5. #5
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    SS rims were out by the late '50s, if I am not mistaken.

    -Kurt

  6. #6
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    Those I think were more like chromed steel rims - and they certainly did rust if left unattended for a long time in humid conditions. The All Steel Bike moniker was still used on my 1969 or 70 bike. Unless it was a model with 27 inch wheels, the one's with 26 inch wheels were pretty much identical in build and geometry, no matter whether they were setup as an English racer or a 10-speed. No bottom bracket oiler on the one I had. Lots of thing could have been interchanged from different Raleigh bikes over the years, since everything from one pretty much fit any other.

  7. #7
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    My '73 Raleigh doesn't have a bb oiler either. I don't think it has a serial # .At least none that I can find?

  8. #8
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    Thanks for all your comments. Now, having had the time to look at the bicycle more closely I realise that the wheels 'threw' me. I saw the pics on ebay and assumed the wheels were SS because they were clean and looked rust free. I didn't realise that those rims were also made of steel!! They are rusting where the brake pads have removed the chrome around the rims. But having cleaned it all up and fixed the recalcitrant 4 speed it is still a 'good buy' to me.
    Excepting one annoying proviso: The seat post will not come out of the tube. It will rotate and move up and down about 10mm but will not come out!! I have used WD40 and left it a while but still no joy. I have tried to spread the split after removing the seat bolt, but still no movement. I cannot figure this out... Any suggestions???
    Cheers, Viscount.

  9. #9
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Cardinal rule #1 in vintage bikes - if you run across something of which you've never seen (but possibly heard) about before, don't try to guess what it is - seek professional assistance at once

    -Kurt

  10. #10
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    Viscount, if you can move the seat post that much, you should be able to get it out. Make sure you go at it with the saddle firmly attached as that'll provide the leverage you need. Stand on the left side of the bike, put one foot somewhere around the top of the bottom bracket, and yank the saddle with both hands while turning it back and forth. Watch out for when it works free and you lose your balance!

    Neal

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    Isn't all that rust/gunk/wd-40 falling into and contaminating the BB?

  12. #12
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobn View Post
    Isn't all that rust/gunk/wd-40 falling into and contaminating the BB?
    Maybe...but you can always redo the BB too Can't recall if the Raleigh has a full tube BB or not. On many mild steel frames I have disassembled there is only a small hole between the BB and the main tubes.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
    RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
    _Nicodemus

    "Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
    Aluminum: barely a hundred
    Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
    _krazygluon

  13. #13
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
    Viscount, if you can move the seat post that much, you should be able to get it out. Make sure you go at it with the saddle firmly attached as that'll provide the leverage you need. Stand on the left side of the bike, put one foot somewhere around the top of the bottom bracket, and yank the saddle with both hands while turning it back and forth. Watch out for when it works free and you lose your balance!

    Neal
    Thanks for all the advice/comments people!
    I got the post out eventually, by brute force.
    I did manage to widen the split at the top slightly and that did it. But when it came out there were no obvious marks to indicate where it had stuck.
    But it is a good quality chrome surface (it would have been so obvious on an alloy post!) and it looks perfect now.

    As for the SS wheel issue I can say that it was an understandable error on my part.
    On the ebay pic the bike was dirty/slightly rusty, but the rims gleamed and so I just assumed they were SS!! I've had other Raleighs/Rudges of similar vintage and they were all SS..... Lucky?

    Research indicates SS were still available in 1960 for a £2 extra!! ($4 now?)
    But the main reason I bought it was for spares, and for the price I paid the immaculate rear 60 5 FG dynohub will get me twice what I paid for the whole bike. Under the oily dirt it is immaculate and works perfectly, now it's adjusted properly. Both gears and dynamo. Rode it last Saturday.

    Apparently the FG was discontinued around this time so it's one of the last made.
    It's on UK ebay now (120148502151 Not sure how to insert links in here yet. Sorry)

    I really wanted the enclosed chainguard (and brake set/ bars) in that subtle Raleigh green for another project, so I'm happy, and have a set of mudguards/fenders and a good frame etc., to trade with local friends in time.

    The WD 40 in the BB will be investigated when I can get the cranks off.
    47 year old cotter pins?
    Not tried yet, but they are coming out one way or another! If only to get the chain-case off.

    Thanks again all,
    Viscount

    PS Will post some pics of my Viscount when I can figure out how to do it.
    Been upgraded with Mavic M3s, 9speed sprocket and 105 derailer.
    It's a flyer, even with rack and guards. A nice light Tourer, in everyday use.

  14. #14
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    Cardinal rule #1 in vintage bikes - if you run across something of which you've never seen (but possibly heard) about before, don't try to guess what it is - seek professional assistance at once

    -Kurt
    Point taken, but I didn't have the time before the listing ended!
    AND, I thought I knew.....

    Viscount.

  15. #15
    Cyclotouriste
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    My 1973 Sport also does not have a bottom bracket oiler. However, I have a 40's Sport that has a brass flip-top oiler (like on older SA hubs).

    And now I have just acquired an early 60's Sport that has an unsual spring-loaded ball as the means for sealing the hole (not the metal or even plastic flip top oilers). I've never seen/heard of the spring-loaded mechanism on the Raleigh, and I wonder if it's original equipment. It seems much superior to the metal flip-top mechanism, though not as quaint, IMHO.

    It's hard to believe someone would bother replacing the original equipment with this spring-loaded ball mechanism, so does anyone know if this was original equipment?

    Many thanks,

    Mark McClure

  16. #16
    Disraeli Gears Charles Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by viscount View Post
    I saw the pics on ebay and assumed the wheels were SS because they were clean and looked rust free. I didn't realise that those rims were also made of steel!! They are rusting where the brake pads have removed the chrome around the rims.
    SS (assuming you mean stainless steel) is also a steel alloy -- it's got more chromium (and I think molybdenum too, at least for certain varieties), and the chromium forms a very thin, hard, invisible oxide layer on the surface that protects the interior steel from corrosion. The layer forms passively, upon exposure to air for several hours. However, if that layer is damaged, and foreign materials like salts or iron oxide are allowed to get corrosion started before the chromium oxide layer re-forms, it will never reestablish itself, unless you grind off the corrosion, remove the contaminants, and passivate again. Thus, SS can and will rust under the right conditions.

    All this is academic -- as you've found, you have chrome-plated rims, and brake wear can remove the chrome. However, if you clean the rust off, and use the brakes often enough to keep them clean, you should get good service out of them. I don't know what you could treat the braking surfaces with that would protect the bare steel and not interfere with braking.

    Alloy rims are both less annoying from a corrosion point-of-view, and also much superior to steel as a braking surface, particularly in the wet. Vintage purity is one thing, but hospitalization is another.

  17. #17
    26 tpi nut. sailorbenjamin's Avatar
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    My '54 Raleigh Sport has that spring ball oiler.

  18. #18
    Cyclotouriste
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    Raleigh bottom bracket oilers

    I hadn't yet been exposed to that generation of technology (50's - 70's) in the Raleigh, not that they changed much over the years. Actually, though, following the subtle technology changes in a model with such a long production run is kind of fascinating. Just one more reason why we love the Sports.

    Mark
    Last edited by Tujunga Kid; 03-31-08 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Reads better this way

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