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Old 08-01-07, 08:18 PM   #1
cadillacmike68
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Late 70s early 80s narro 7 speed chains

Who made the late 70s early 80s narrow 7 speed chains? The ones with flush rivets that would work on a normal 5-6 speed rear but would fit the then new 7 speed freewheels. Was it sedis or suntour - or someone else.

I got a Sachs 7 speed 13-21 freewheel. I was going to sell it, but after cleaning it up, it looks so nice with its chrome plated cogs that I'd like to put it on my wife's Shogun. (Sorry, only Regina Oro for my bike thank you). It would allow me to get rid of the ratty assed black sh!tmano cogset and maybe even the stupid "chain protector" as well.

But her bike thas that dreadful sh!tmano ultraglide (??) chain that has a WIDER central section (where the opening for the teeth are) - whatever was the purpose of THAT!?!. Anyway, if someone knows the old chain name and model, i could probably find one on ebay, or maybe even Joe Haskins bike shop in Tampa.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-01-07, 08:49 PM   #2
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Why not just get something new like a SRAM PC-58 or PC-68?
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Old 08-01-07, 09:12 PM   #3
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Why not just get something new like a SRAM PC-58 or PC-68?
Because it is for my wife's 1987 Shogun, not some 2007 carbon or aluminum overpriced junker - that's why. BTW, please do not ever ask that question regarding my 1978 Professional.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...2&d=1182662347
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Old 08-01-07, 09:17 PM   #4
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Didn't 7-speed narrow come about in the mid- to late-80s?
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Old 08-01-07, 10:01 PM   #5
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Because it is for my wife's 1987 Shogun, not some 2007 carbon or aluminum overpriced junker - that's why. BTW, please do not ever ask that question regarding my 1978 Professional.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...2&d=1182662347
Well, as an ultraglide owner I was going to give you the definitive answer to your question, but since you were so rude to the first guy... nevermind!
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Old 08-01-07, 10:14 PM   #6
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Didn't 7-speed narrow come about in the mid- to late-80s?
I think you're right, but since this is for a 1987 Shogun, that's ok. I just want to get rid of the ultraglide junk. it's too wide and is noisy...
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Old 08-01-07, 10:22 PM   #7
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Well, as an ultraglide owner I was going to give you the definitive answer to your question, but since you were so rude to the first guy... nevermind!
I posted this in the classic and vintage precisely because I DO NOT want people telling me to buy the latest and greatest -whatever- which I have no use for. The sh!tmano UG works but it's BUGLY and noisy. The chain is wider than my Oro chains that are 15 years older. The Sachs would look nicer on her bike. I'll go find a sedisport chain on ebay. Or I'll call my bike store owner friend up in MA, he might even have some still... So thank you for for nothing. I can generally find what I'm looking for but wasn't sure of the brand, but I know now, and i didn't need your non-assistance.
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Old 08-02-07, 12:01 AM   #8
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I use a shimano 600 uniglide freewheel on my super record equipped italian steed.. Why? It shifts way better than a regina freewheel could ever dream of allowing.
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Old 08-02-07, 07:18 AM   #9
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I have SRAM (formerly Sachs) chains on my C-Record equipped 1987 Schwinn Paramount and my Nuovo Record equipped 1978 Kvale, both bikes I treasure for their smooth, responsive rides and aesthetic beauty. The chains, which I believe were recommended by none other than Sheldon Brown, work fine. I would not call them the latest and greatest, just practical and effective.

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Old 08-02-07, 07:36 AM   #10
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you could look for a suntour ultra chain, I believe they were narrower than
the normal winner chains.
that said, I'm using SRAM PC58 on most of my vintage bikes. The chain just works well,
I think it's a bit more 'flexible' in that chainline is not the problem that it was with
the older chains.
as for latest and greatest, they're not, they are the same chains that were used for
7 and 8 speed when they first came out. It's not like we're recommending the 10 speed
narrow pita chains. .

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Old 08-02-07, 08:01 AM   #11
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The SACHS 7-speed chain you're looking for is the SC-40 Power Glide:



Mind you though, even though the pattern of this chain IS different then Shimano IG or HG, both the Shimano IG/HG and SACHS chains (and for that matter, freewheels) were first released in the late-'80s/early-'90s, and it is perfectly acceptable to use HG in it's place (although one should never use Power Glide on an HG freewheel). Neither product existed in the late '70s or early '80s to my knowledge.

SACHS 7-speed Power Glide freewheel
(Also came in a box with a '96-dated Nashbar sales sticker):



For that matter, the same goes for your Power Glide freewheel. Note the box is dated 1996 from Nashbar.

The Shimano UG chains were designed for the 6-speed UG freewheels and freehubs. The wide tooth pattern was to grab the twist-tooth teeth design, for the twist-tooth design left a rather wide spacing of each cog. When used with the UG freewheels, these chains are a delight. With anything else, especially Suntour, you might run into problems - including the chain chronically dis-engaging then immediately re-engaging.

Shimano UG 6-speed freewheel and matching chain:


For the record, TAYA currently makes a perfect replacement for the UG chain, marketed under the Bell brand and sold through - guess where - Wal-Mart. Works great on UG clusters, but avoid them at all costs on anything else, as the same problems that UG has on other freewheels is shared by the TAYA chain.

Shimano UG 6-speed freewheel with TAYA chain:


-Kurt
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Old 08-02-07, 10:12 AM   #12
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i'm currently using a new sram 9 speed chain on my Marinoni with a 7 speed regina freewheel, works beautifully (and better then whatever was available at the time), and looks twice that.
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Old 08-02-07, 10:28 AM   #13
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please do not ever ask that question regarding my 1978 Professional.
Can I ask a question regarding that Velo Plush saddle?
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Old 08-02-07, 10:54 AM   #14
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i'm currently using a new sram 9 speed chain on my Marinoni with a 7 speed regina freewheel, works beautifully (and better then whatever was available at the time), and looks twice that.
That's one thing I do NOT recommend - using 9 or 10 speed chains on 7-speed "stamped-cog" (non-ramped, to be exact - Regina and Suntour, for instance) freewheels - or any 7-speed freewheel. Too many chances for chain skate.

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Old 08-02-07, 08:36 PM   #15
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Can I ask a question regarding that Velo Plush saddle?
It's a Selle royal not a velo plush. I have the original Brooks Team Pro saddle. It's still hard as a brick after 30 years so i took it off. At least this is still a european seat.
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Old 08-02-07, 08:40 PM   #16
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That's one thing I do NOT recommend - using 9 or 10 speed chains on 7-speed "stamped-cog" (non-ramped, to be exact - Regina and Suntour, for instance) freewheels - or any 7-speed freewheel. Too many chances for chain skate.

-Kurt
Are you sure the old Regina cogs were stamped? There's a groove down the middle of the teeth on all their cogs except the smallest one in any freewheel. you can't stamp that into a cog. That and there's evidence of milling or machining on all the NOS Regina cogs i have here and I have a lot of them.
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Old 08-02-07, 08:43 PM   #17
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I use a shimano 600 uniglide freewheel on my super record equipped italian steed.. Why? It shifts way better than a regina freewheel could ever dream of allowing.
I get excellent results with the Oro freewheels and chains, solid shifts - hardly any fiddling with the levers. If Reginas were so bad, why were they used by all the major racers for so long...
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Old 08-02-07, 08:49 PM   #18
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The SACHS 7-speed chain you're looking for is the SC-40 Power Glide:

SACHS 7-speed Power Glide freewheel
(Also came in a box with a '96-dated Nashbar sales sticker):


-Kurt
That freewheel looks just like the one i got my hands on. Mine says LY 99 on the 13T cog. I'll find either a sachs power glide or a sedisport chain to go with it.
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Old 08-02-07, 09:04 PM   #19
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Are you sure the old Regina cogs were stamped? There's a groove down the middle of the teeth on all their cogs except the smallest one in any freewheel. you can't stamp that into a cog. That and there's evidence of milling or machining on all the NOS Regina cogs i have here and I have a lot of them.
True, they weren't "stamped"-per se, but as they aren't ramped, they certainly have a "stamped" appearance to them, hence my rather incorrect slang for the non-ramped FWs.


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I get excellent results with the Oro freewheels and chains, solid shifts - hardly any fiddling with the levers. If Reginas were so bad, why were they used by all the major racers for so long...
I find both enjoyable. True, the UGs shift smoother, but the nice solid "clunk" when shifting on a Regina freewheel is equally enjoyable. I'd say it is personal preference. Some people like a good clunk when shifting, some people like smooth shifting, and some people want ultra-smooth shifting.

Case in point, there was a post here recently extolling the virtues of the Shimano Hyperglide (HG) ramped freewheels, both in indexed and friction mode. Many people love 'em, and some don't.

Me? I think HG is very nice for an indexed bike, but I can't stand them in friction mode - they always ghost shift for me unless I have them spot-on, which is something that wouldn't plague me when running friction on a non-ramped or UG freewheel. As for friction shifting, I like both the reassuring noises of the Regina and the slick shifting of the UG, and I'll choose which one I'll ride on depending on the mood I'm in.

Incidentally, I did once ride a Univega outfitted with Suntour's non-ramped, trigger-shift Xpress shifting system for upright bars, and I must say it was the slickest thumb indexing I've ever used - not because of ramping, or the lack of it, but because of the shifters - smooth as butter, and one could climb or dump the entire cluster in one thumb movement (and both actions with the same thumb under the bar - nothing like the under/over Shimano system) if one wishes. That's MY idea of ideal indexed shifting, others may beg to differ.

Best of luck on that search for the SC-40 chain. It was very common as replacement chain - shouldn't take long to find it.

-Kurt
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Old 08-02-07, 09:09 PM   #20
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These chains should do you:

Definitely the real deal - newer production, but same chain pattern/design:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SACHS-SEDIS-BICY...QQcmdZViewItem

Newer production as well, but oddly enough, 8-speed compatible. I've never seen SACHS 8-speed, so I wouldn't know if cog spacing or chain width differs from the 7-speed stuff, although I'd take a guess it is (either that, or it is the same stuff, marketed as 8-speed chain in an effort to convince folks to buy new chains when they converted to 8-speed, tagging along on the Shimano 7/8 speed chain requirement hype):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

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Old 08-08-07, 06:35 PM   #21
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These chains should do you:

Definitely the real deal - newer production, but same chain pattern/design:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SACHS-SEDIS-BICY...QQcmdZViewItem

Newer production as well, but oddly enough, 8-speed compatible. I've never seen SACHS 8-speed, so I wouldn't know if cog spacing or chain width differs from the 7-speed stuff, although I'd take a guess it is (either that, or it is the same stuff, marketed as 8-speed chain in an effort to convince folks to buy new chains when they converted to 8-speed, tagging along on the Shimano 7/8 speed chain requirement hype):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

-Kurt
Thanks Kurt. that seller had no idea if it would work (i asked him), but I'll try and get it per your recommendation. There was also an older Sedisport that went too high for me earlier this week.

The Sachs that I have is a 7 speed, very similar to the regina 7 speed s of the mid 80s, and the same width - about 2-3mm wider than a 6 speed ORO.

What is a "ramped" freewheel? Is the shimano UG such a thing or is it somthing else. Or is it one of those with the cog teeth all lined up neatly (something that cannot be done with threeaded cogs)???
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Old 08-08-07, 07:49 PM   #22
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The SRAM PC-58 is a direct descendant of the great Sedisport chains of ages now past. It is also inexpensive and higher quality than any chain you could get back then. If you're willing to hunt for "suitable" vintage chains, well, that's your business - but chewing out some guy for suggesting you consider a perfectly acceptable, unpretentious, inexpensive and high-quality modern alternative is totally uncalled-for. There are many vintage components which I can understand wanting to preserve and use, rather than some possibly better-performing modern alternative, but not chains. I use the SRAM PC-58 on all my old steelies - though I only have one at the moment - and it's a great upgrade. It's what I use on my new steelie, too!

A "ramped" freewheel is one with ramps machined into the sides of the cogs that are designed to grab the chain on an upshift and help it mesh more smoothly onto the new gear. They're very nice with indexed shifting. Because friction shifting is generally a bit smoother and slower anyway, it's often possible to achieve literally noiseless shifts when they are used with friction. Some folks like that, some don't.
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Old 08-08-07, 08:49 PM   #23
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Who made the late 70s early 80s narrow 7 speed chains? The ones with flush rivets that would work on a normal 5-6 speed rear but would fit the then new 7 speed freewheels. Was it sedis or suntour - or someone else.
Sedis.

The Sedisport narrow chain with a Suntour New Winner Ultra 7 12 - 18 straight block was my favorite set up for racing in the early 80s. I stunk, but my drivetrain was great.
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Old 08-09-07, 09:58 PM   #24
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The SRAM PC-58 is a direct descendant of the great Sedisport chains of ages now past. It is also inexpensive and higher quality than any chain you could get back then. If you're willing to hunt for "suitable" vintage chains, well, that's your business - but chewing out some guy for suggesting you consider a perfectly acceptable, unpretentious, inexpensive and high-quality modern alternative is totally uncalled-for. There are many vintage components which I can understand wanting to preserve and use, rather than some possibly better-performing modern alternative, but not chains. I use the SRAM PC-58 on all my old steelies - though I only have one at the moment - and it's a great upgrade. It's what I use on my new steelie, too!

A "ramped" freewheel is one with ramps machined into the sides of the cogs that are designed to grab the chain on an upshift and help it mesh more smoothly onto the new gear. They're very nice with indexed shifting. Because friction shifting is generally a bit smoother and slower anyway, it's often possible to achieve literally noiseless shifts when they are used with friction. Some folks like that, some don't.
I guess we'll have to disagree, because I'll never put anything except a Regina ORO (or Record - if I can ever find one decently priced) chain on my Professional
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Old 08-10-07, 01:36 PM   #25
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... I use the SRAM PC-58 on all my old steelies ...
As do I.
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