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  1. #1
    Senior Member jjciiijs's Avatar
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    Masi internal vs external

    I understand that when the Masi kids were in CA they made some bikes with internal luges. At that time i was also told the external lugged frames were still being made.

    I was originally looking for the Masi frame which was red with Russan letters on it but can't find one. Now I come across an internal lugged frame.

    Any body know enough to give me an idea of the value or ??? on internal luges vs external?
    Jeff
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  2. #2
    The Legitimiser Sammyboy's Avatar
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    It's pretty much gotta be internal, for luges. I mean, if you try to luge down the OUTside of a bike, the concavity of the tubes is just gonna send you over the edge. All that said, it's still either gotta be a really big bike, or a really small lugist.

  3. #3
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    The Masi with internal lugs was the 3V (or Tre Volumetrica), which originated in Italy and was made with oversized Excell tubing. Very innovative design and they are reputed to be great riders. After their introduction by Masi in Italy, some were made in California using a different tubeset (True Temper in at least some cases). The Russian 3Vs were California-built. 3Vs are cool bikes. Check eBay for value - they come up for sale fairly often. Neither super rare nor super collectible, except for the early Italian ones, which I think have a lot of upside. But definitely better and worth more than pseudo-Masis such as the Nuova Strada and Gran Corsa. Later (90's) there were so-called "Team 3V" frames built by Mondonico, which IMO have minimal collectibility relative to the earlier ones, but again probably ride nicely. These were originally built at the same time as the "better" 3Vs, leading to some confusion. Not long ago, you could still order a 3V to be made in California, and the Haro Masi folks have produced a replica 3V frame.
    Do you have any more details or pics?
    Also, could you please fix the spelling of Hetchins under your avatar, it's driving me nuts.
    Last edited by Picchio Special; 09-20-07 at 04:27 PM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member jjciiijs's Avatar
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    Good info.
    I was thinking of buying a replica made lately with the original Masi internal lugs found recently. I believe the guys who made them found 24 sets of luges and then made up the frames as retro. I can't seem to find the one with the Russan letters on it that I wanted so was thinking about going to a retro repro. It just happened to have internal luges and I was only use to external lugs.
    Jeff
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  5. #5
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    A couple of those Russian frames were on eBay maybe a couple of years ago. The people that have them generally want a mint for them - more than they're worth, IMO. You could probably pick up a 3V frame of one flavor or another cheap and have it repainted like a Russian one. Someone like Jim Allen may have the decals - he's a likely suspect for having painted the originals.
    Thanks for fixing the spelling. Hetchins is a marque that deserves it. You're fortunate to have an M.O.

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    The "Soviet" 3V's were just a commerative of the fact that the Soviet team rode Masi's at one point. The Soviet's did not ride the 3V however.

    The Soviet frames were part of a trio of special commerative limited edition frames that were sold over time by Masi USA. They included an Olympic series of 200 with a Greek font as primary, a transfer tour de force, with decals everyewhere, and the 60th anniv. Diamond Jubilee edition of 100 or 200, don't remember, with less than stellar graphic appeal, but interesting paint.

    The recent small run of 3V's that were made here are I am sure are well made and ride well, but the external seat stay caps, and socket dropouts leave me flat. The completely white seat tube also just reads 80's KHS to me. They should re-issue the Gran Criterium as seen in the earlier 70's...and not with the Henry James lugs as sourced in the 80's... do it in Faema colors...buy the lugs from Richard Sachs even... Tim? are you reading this?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by repechage View Post
    The "Soviet" 3V's were just a commerative of the fact that the Soviet team rode Masi's at one point. The Soviet's did not ride the 3V however.

    The Soviet frames were part of a trio of special commerative limited edition frames that were sold over time by Masi USA. They included an Olympic series of 200 with a Greek font as primary, a transfer tour de force, with decals everyewhere, and the 60th anniv. Diamond Jubilee edition of 100 or 200, don't remember, with less than stellar graphic appeal, but interesting paint.

    The recent small run of 3V's that were made here are I am sure are well made and ride well, but the external seat stay caps, and socket dropouts leave me flat. The completely white seat tube also just reads 80's KHS to me. They should re-issue the Gran Criterium as seen in the earlier 70's...and not with the Henry James lugs as sourced in the 80's... do it in Faema colors...buy the lugs from Richard Sachs even... Tim? are you reading this?
    Great info. Agree on the repro 3V frames, too. A GC repro reissue would be cool. But Spanish Blue.

  8. #8
    Sensuous Man Devotion's Avatar
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    You can still get 3V's from Milano Sport (http://www.milano3v.com/), the American Importer of frames made by Alberto Masi's company in Milan. Because of the American liscensing deal made by his father Faliero in the early 70's, Alberto can not badge a bike as a "Masi" for the American market. They are badged either "Milano Sport" or "Alberto Masi"...but are the ONLY TRUE MASI being made today, in my opinion.

  9. #9
    Sensuous Man Devotion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by repechage View Post
    They should re-issue the Gran Criterium as seen in the earlier 70's...and not with the Henry James lugs as sourced in the 80's... do it in Faema colors...buy the lugs from Richard Sachs even...
    Alberto Masi has recently been making lugged steel frames using Richard Sachs lugs and oversized tubing. They are available through Milano Sport. Yes, there is even one with the Faema colors. It was at the NAHMBS last year.
    Alberto made a similar chrome track frame with a 60's Masi Special decal kit.
    Alberto is also making some with 70's Gran Criterium decals...I saw them at the Vigorelli in Milano earlier in the summer. They were all small sizes and on their way to Japan.

  10. #10
    B-b-b-b-b-b-bicicle Rider orange leader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sammyboy View Post
    It's pretty much gotta be internal, for luges. I mean, if you try to luge down the OUTside of a bike, the concavity of the tubes is just gonna send you over the edge. All that said, it's still either gotta be a really big bike, or a really small lugist.
    I thought it was funny. but then I like stupid stuff like that.
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  11. #11
    juneeaa memba!
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    Quote Originally Posted by orange leader View Post
    I thought it was funny. but then I like stupid stuff like that.
    Ya know, I just didn't see the humor until I read the quoted version in your thread. Would that be street luge, then?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devotion View Post
    Alberto Masi has recently been making lugged steel frames using Richard Sachs lugs and oversized tubing. They are available through Milano Sport. Yes, there is even one with the Faema colors. It was at the NAHMBS last year.
    Alberto made a similar chrome track frame with a 60's Masi Special decal kit.
    Alberto is also making some with 70's Gran Criterium decals...I saw them at the Vigorelli in Milano earlier in the summer. They were all small sizes and on their way to Japan.
    I thought someone would understand the irony. But those imports could well be Pergoretti's...

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