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Old 09-25-07, 07:48 PM   #1
Charles Wahl
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Replacing hub races

I'm going to parade my ignorance of bike manufacturing and maintenance: is it possible to replace the races fixed into a quality hub? I've never seen such things available for sale, or read any posts where someone has had that done. Likewise, I've never heard of anyone remachining races.

So, when your races have become pitted, do you just throw away that nice alloy, buy a new hub and rebuild the wheel? Having replaced many wheel bearing races in old foreign cars, this just seems like a waste.
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Old 09-25-07, 09:09 PM   #2
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Most of the classic era Campagnolo hubs have replaceable races. It's very easy to knock them out and replace, but the hard part these days is finding replacements. I scored a small handfull from a LBS parts bins awhile back, but I'm not giving any up.
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Old 09-25-07, 09:32 PM   #3
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+1, and in my experience Campy was the only mfgr. that made replacement races available, but they offered about 1 cup for every 100 replacement cones so they were never really easy to find. The "dirty" fix (that sometimes worked a charm) was to load the hub up with lapping compound (as used to lap auto valve seats/valves) and the old bearings/cones and spin the axle with an electric drill. Clean ALL the compound out and replace with new cones, balls and grease. As I say, it *sometimes* worked miracles, but could also lap away the hardened layer of the cup and so...YRMV.
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Old 09-26-07, 09:31 AM   #4
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If you can get purchase on the backside of the cup you can generally get it out, either with a micro-sized 'rocket' tool or with a version of the Sanshin bearing remover. Campy had a looser press fit than everyone else, as they intended their stuff to be serviceable. Some may take a bit of heat, which expends the alloy hub shell more than the steel cup.

Special tricks: If your Campy rear hub has trashed cups and you can't secure replacements, you can remove the cups and replace with 6001 size sealed bearings (like Sanshin, Suntour, Specialized, etc.) and the appropriate axle (10 X 1), 'cones', spacers, and locknuts. I had a friend who did this to Campy track hubs to get the right chainline on track tandems, as the sealed bearing equipment allowed the hub to come right close to the dropout. This was on a tandem with same side drive and the drive chainring on the outside to facilitate gear changes.

If you have access to machine tools, you can take most any hub out to 28mm on the cup seat and do the same trick. Some are larger--you'll have to find a bearing to fit with a 12mm i.d.

Later

Mel
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Old 09-26-07, 09:35 AM   #5
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Nice! Thanks for posting that tip. Mel!
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Old 09-26-07, 10:00 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
Nice! Thanks for posting that tip. Mel!
Hey!

Thanks for posting the lapping compound trick--I've done it, too, with Simichrome on mildly farked items, and with Bullseye Chrome Cleaner on heavy water damage (I used to work in Seattle). On BBs you can snug the adjustable cup as you spin and grind. They generate some heat at 3000rpm!

Later

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Old 09-26-07, 11:02 AM   #7
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I have done it once with a Campy hub. I used a cracked Campy hub as the donor. It worked out great.
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Old 09-26-07, 12:04 PM   #8
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It appears to be possible to do it with other hub brands as well. The ubiquitous Normandy hubs appear to have removable races, and will also work on some Milremo branded hubs as I believe they were made by Normandy. So, if you had Milremo hubs needing new races Normandy hubs could be good donors. Trick is to get the old race out, perhaps the campy tool made for this purpose will work with these too.
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Old 09-26-07, 07:11 PM   #9
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Thanks to everyone who's answered; this is interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melville View Post
If you can get purchase on the backside of the cup you can generally get it out, either with a micro-sized 'rocket' tool or with a version of the Sanshin bearing remover.
Playing dummy here again: what's a "rocket tool"? I assume it's more specialized than a punch.

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If your Campy rear hub has trashed cups and you can't secure replacements, you can remove the cups and replace with 6001 size sealed bearings (like Sanshin, Suntour, Specialized, etc.) and the appropriate axle (10 X 1), 'cones', spacers, and locknuts.
Sealed bearings have both race and cone integral, right? So what's a "cone" that goes with spacers + locknuts?

Thanks,
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Old 09-26-07, 10:59 PM   #10
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I can't answer for Mel concerning the Rocket Tool (new one to me, too) I always just used a drift. As far as the "cone" used on cartridge bearing hubs, I take a stab: most that I've worked on have some component that threads or slips on the axle and couples the axle with the inner race of the cartridge bearing, it's typically a thick "spacer" with a step machined that fits in the gap between axle and inner surface of the race and presses against the outboard side of the race...much harder to describe than it deserves, if you take apart a hub with sealed cartridge bearings you'll get it instantly.
I believe that the Sanshin tool he's referring to is also same as the SunTour: a simple blind bearing puller tool used with a rod as a "handle".
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Old 09-27-07, 04:13 AM   #11
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It can bedone with most hubs. The easiest way to find a new race is to buy a 'donor hub'. If the race deosnt come out with whatever tools you have around cut the hub shell.
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Old 09-27-07, 09:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
Playing dummy here again: what's a "rocket tool"? I assume it's more specialized than a punch.
The rocket tool is the expanding drift used to remove headset races. There are (or were) tiny versions made for hub service. The Suntour/Sanshin/Specialized sealed bearing tool works well also (two half moons connected by a spring clip), just requires a drift (an old solid axle works). These things are a lot easier to get out if you can avoid cocking the race in the bore.

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Originally Posted by Charles Wahl
Sealed bearings have both race and cone integral, right? So what's a "cone" that goes with spacers + locknuts?
It's the adjustable item used to go from 9 or 10mm threads to the 12mm i.d. of the 6001 bearing. It allows the use of a standard 9 or 10X1 axle with no special shoulders/odd diameters. Take an old Specialized hub apart sometime. Goodness, I've just repeated unworthy1.

Good luck

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Old 04-14-11, 03:10 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
It can bedone with most hubs. The easiest way to find a new race is to buy a 'donor hub'. If the race deosnt come out with whatever tools you have around cut the hub shell.
i'm dealing with this problem at the moment. Normandy hub w/ one missing race laced to a rim and a few donor hubs (stamped 83). The races are certainly machined flush to the shell's axle opening leaving not many options for removal. Thus the question how the heck could it be done?

I already considered sawing the hub apart, but wanted to avoid that if possible.

thanks.
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Old 04-14-11, 03:45 PM   #14
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Everything you need to know...

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...hlight=replace
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Old 04-15-11, 10:46 AM   #15
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wow i searched this forum high and low. thanks.

btw, check this out

http://www.flickr.com/photos/steel-i...n/photostream/
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Old 04-15-11, 11:37 AM   #16
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Wow! Very impressive restorations going on there.
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