Scooper

He stopped off in the 41 before coming here.

Bandera

Hardly the case.

A $300 bike in '70 would be as well equipped as most bikes in the pro peloton:

"Schwinn Professional Road Racing Paramount
Wherever serious cyclist gather you'll find the Schwinn Paramount. Internationally recognized as America's finest contribution to cycling technology. Hand crafted and equipped with the finest components available worldwide. 10-speed derailleur 55 to 100 gear...selection of custom equipment and choice of Schwinn colors.

•P13-9 Professional Road Racing Paramount......$299.95"

1970 Schwinn Catalog

Adjusted for inflation $300 in 1970 will get you $1,839 in 2015, enough for a perfectly nice bicycle but not even a down payment on a bare Pinarello Dogma F8 frameset as used by pros today.

Pinarello Dogma F8 Road Frameset - 2015 | Competitive Cyclist

OP: Your trolling Kung Fu is weak and lacks facts.

-Bandera

McBTC

You're either comparing a '70 P13-9 Professional Road Racing Paramount at $299.95 to a 2015 Pinarello Dogma F8 Road Bike or you're making my point.

Bandera

I'm showing the facts that your assertion is totally incorrect:

$300 in 1970 bought a pro quality race bike, the 2015 $ equivalent does not.
It's not simply inflation that has spiraled pro bike costs to ridiculous prices: the Price Really Has Gone Way Up in real terms.

Today's $9,133 list price for a Dogma DI2 would be $1,490 in 1970. That's nearly Fives Times the cost of a P-13!
Your assertion is massively incorrect.

Your Trolling Kung Fu is weak too in a sub-forum that is more interested in a nice '58 AW Lenton Sports than a '15 Pinnalized-Specerallo 'lectric shift .

-Bandera

LesterOfPuppets

not to mention that the Paramount is complete, vs. the Pinarello frameset only.

Bandera

Nah, the Dogma D8 frameset is a only $5,750 a DI2 bike is $9,133.

Pinarello Dogma F8 Road Frameset - 2015 | Competitive Cyclist

-Bandera

LesterOfPuppets

Oh OK. Dang, those D8 are CHEEP. I thought they were more like $12K, not that it really matters to me...

Chrome Molly

Swap the parts off the $1839 bike, hang them on the Paramount frame, then do a blind taste test. Get back to me with the results...

crank_addict

Yeh, and the cobblestones still beat the hell out of everyone and everything -

today-
"I had a mechanical problem and then the peloton went full gas," said Pinot, who had trouble with his derailleur and could not change bike.
Contador- rim of the wheel broken and hitting the brakes

bobbyl1966

Why stop used steel bikes in tour of france. Carbon fiber bikes is be strong as steel bikes? One man do local races is tell me one rider is tried get on the bike by mistake is hit the frame with the shoes and the frame is crack.

Bandera

I'll translate:
A man who had a Crack habit tried to swipe a bicycle but the owner smacked the would-be thief soundly w/ his shoe.

This makes far more sense than the Original Post and is not a Troll, but something else.

-Bandera

Don Marco

That -does- sound nice. Got photos?

thinktubes 

Arrgh!!!! - he pushed all the "secret" C&V buttons (except for sewing machines and cats)

The Golden Boy 

CATS!!!!









Oh No He Ditn't!!!!

yellowjeep

I googled "last steel bike in the TdF" and clicked on this thread. I had to laugh when I saw I was one of the first people to post in this thread some 8 years ago...

I just bought and built a Fondriest X-Status made from Deda Optimal, which as far as I can tell is Deda 16.5 for the main tubes and and something less for the stays. In researching the bike I found some references to Cofidis riding the steel Fondriest frames in 1997-1998 and it looks like maybe steel MBKs in 1999.

Fondriest


MBK


These may not be from the Tour but from what I can tell these were the team bikes, so maybe a steel bike was being ridden as late as 1999.

Classtime 

I recall some old guy riding a steel Colnago for Quickstep or Mapei when everybody else was on carbon.

McBTC

Careful... I did the same thing a month ago and received a warning about trolling. Apparently, steel frames matter!

dddd

I can see some possible marketing value in that, with added value if Colnago's target customer for a high-end steel bike was on averag an older rider.
It might be worth putting the older guy on a steel frame, even with it's weight penalty, to help sales, given that rider's efforts and resources in theory equate to the marketing value of their entire kit or ensemble. Not a new idea, I know.

Yellowjeep's photos seem to show the steel-frame recipe for staying relevant at the pro tour level during steel's possibly final year up top.

OS tubing all around, fillet-brazed joints, aero downtube and with threadless carbon fork.
I notice also the aluminum rims, aero front on the Cofidis Fondriest bike.

McBTC

I question any real feel of steel in the smaller frame-longer stem bikes that pro-riders employ (even the angles are different on the small frames). In any event, my guess is that given the larger frame bikes I've owned over the years, I really know the feel, so much so that on an the extreme, an old tour bike I had required a handlebar bag to even out the wave that was introduced at the back by a pair of loaded panniers.

dddd

Any part of a bike frame, regardless of the chosen material, can have it's flex characteristics adjusted during design.

It is when the extremes of "high performance structure" design are applied that certain materials show limits in terms of how much flex might still allow adequate durability and stiffness.
So when lowest weight is targeted in the design, the weight and durability trade-offs may prevent desireable flex-tuning to be considered, and the ride may suffer.
Any material proportioned to maximize weight reduction using oversized sections may lose desired flex in some areas, and carbon frame's advertised weight targets can easily bring that on unless a very thorough optimization is worked through the design.
But carbon and even aluminum frame flex tuning can be easily achieved at the weight of even the lightest steel frame.
Often though, the frame weight is given too much consideration, due to marketing pressures.

Where carbon has been deficient in recent years is in the tendency of their bb and headset bearing seatings to creak incessantly, making steel perhaps a better choice for most of us.
Things like that, and carbon dropouts, can also result in a disappointingly short service life of an expensive investment. I've seen what the used frames sell for that customers put up for sale, and it ain't pretty.

Bandera

So you question that any of us who have ridden the steel frames that fit our less than NBA stature for the last few decades in competition lack "real feel of steel"?
Precisely what "feel" do you expect us to perceive instead? The "feel" of fine china, a bamboo fly rod or linen sheets perhaps?

Sheer utter nonsense once again. Did you expect a 52cm frame to have the same angles as a 62cm?

-Bandera

McBTC

No, nor the same flex you'll get with a less boxy, taller and relatively longer frame made of the same cromo tubing. The smaller the frame the less difference you're going to feel, probably irrespective of the material used; but, when it comes to steel, cromo tubing that is strong enough for a large frame is essentially over-engineered for a small frame.

dddd

And that's one reason why traditional steel frame tubings have long been offered in a great variety of wall thickness, to suit the frame builders attempts to give every frame size an appropriate balance of weight and stiffness.


Only at very low price points would one gauge of tubing be expected to suit production of a range of frame sizes, but then it's hard to find any carbon frames at those price points, so useful comparisons can hardly be made.

FWIW, Specialized has made a point in their very recent advertising of having equipped smaller of their higher-end frames with diameter-adjusted tapered steer tubes, but there has long been market supply for a very wide range of steel steer tube diameters and wall thicknesses, and in any case only the most very recent top offerings of steel downtubes have (supposedly) begged for enhanced lower headtube diameters to most efficiently join these largest of steel tubings.

Bandera

How you would be aware of "what I feel" on any machines is pure unfounded supposition on your part.

Oddly enough I've insisted on riding the correct frame size for myself whether it has been constructed from quality lugged steel, bonded AL or CF.
They all "feel" just fine thanks.
If any and all are over engineered that would inspire a bit more confidence when I stuff it into my local blind decreasing radius corner w/ patched surfaces at the bottom of a high speed descent.
Whew!

Having been in "the industry" for a good long while I've noticed a relevant data point while test riding bikes that I've built for customers much taller/shorter than myself whether it was a track, road or TT bike: "This bike does not fit me, but it feels/works just fine............."

-Bandera

OldsCOOL

I would totally do that.