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  1. #1
    The Recycled Cycler markwebb's Avatar
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    Marinoni and DeRosa and eBay

    I was so mad last nite - I was exchanging emails with seller on eBay about what looked like a nice late vintage DeRosa. I was ready to do BIN but had a few questions. Owner said it had "SLX" engraved on bb and on seat stays, along with "DeRosa" also on seat stays. That seemed odd to have both on seat stays, and as we were exchanging emails about it and he posted more pics some idiot bid $202 when BIN was only $499, knocking out the BIN. And this was on first day of auction. I suspect whoever bid the $202 on first day of auction did so just to wipe out BIN - if ya really wanted the deRosa and it was $499 BIN you'd usually do BIN not an initial bid of $202 on first day. It's up to $305 now. Boy, was I frustrated.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=009


    Then along comes a Marinoni Special tonite. $500 with free shipping with BIN. Looked a little better than the DeRosa and less of a mystery so I jumped on it - so the DeRosa loss is my Marinoni gain !!!
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN:IT&ih=002
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  2. #2
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    it wasn't built by the same DeRosa you think it is- (ie: Ugo DeRosa in Milan) but rather by another italian builder with the same last name.

  3. #3
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    Nice buy, the marinoni is a 1st class bicycle! You will love the way it rides, it's a late 80s model.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  4. #4
    Senior Member jet sanchEz's Avatar
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    Odd, the De Rosa linked in the auction reminds me of my Marinoni Special:




  5. #5
    Senior Member divineAndbright's Avatar
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    I had placed that marinoni you bought on my watch.. I had asked the seller about more specific sizing.. guess I wont be hearing back now! Oh well, I think it mighta been a tad too big looking at the photos, anyone have a 55 marinoni frame? Enjoy it, love the blue and yellow paint!

  6. #6
    The Recycled Cycler markwebb's Avatar
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    I have not heard of another DeRosa with same last name. I think the decals have the same "O" style in the name, and DeRosa on seat stays looks the same (again the unique "O") - so it is branded like a traditional DeRosa, isn't it?? The only thing that threw me off was the color (I could not find that DeRosa livery in any catalogs) nor have I seen "SLX" on the seat stays like the one on eBay. I have heard of counterfeit Masi's made in Mexico, and Benotto's that were also of Mexican origin - but I have not heard of multiple DeRosa builders in Italy.

    Oh - and the carbon fork was odd too, for a vintage bicycle.

    Do you have any info you could share???

    Quote Originally Posted by caterham View Post
    it wasn't built by the same DeRosa you think it is- (ie: Ugo DeRosa in Milan) but rather by another italian builder with the same last name.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Check Out My Gal - Folk Singer Molly McCormack : http://www.mollymccormack.com

  7. #7
    Senior Member RK1963's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwebb View Post
    I have not heard of another DeRosa with same last name. I think the decals have the same "O" style in the name, and DeRosa on seat stays looks the same (again the unique "O") - so it is branded like a traditional DeRosa, isn't it?? The only thing that threw me off was the color (I could not find that DeRosa livery in any catalogs) nor have I seen "SLX" on the seat stays like the one on eBay. I have heard of counterfeit Masi's made in Mexico, and Benotto's that were also of Mexican origin - but I have not heard of multiple DeRosa builders in Italy.

    Oh - and the carbon fork was odd too, for a vintage bicycle.

    Do you have any info you could share???

    Looks like s/he "added on" a Nashbar carbon fork

  8. #8
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    The de Rosa you bid on is not a counterfeit. It is a real de Rosa, but not one built by the famous Ugo de Rosa in Milano but instead of his brother down in Napoli. There are actually two brothers de Rosa, and this lesser known one did built some really nice frames too. I´ve seen other frames of his in Italy.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by markwebb View Post
    I have not heard of another DeRosa with same last name. I think the decals have the same "O" style in the name, and DeRosa on seat stays looks the same (again the unique "O") - so it is branded like a traditional DeRosa, isn't it?? The only thing that threw me off was the color (I could not find that DeRosa livery in any catalogs) nor have I seen "SLX" on the seat stays like the one on eBay. I have heard of counterfeit Masi's made in Mexico, and Benotto's that were also of Mexican origin - but I have not heard of multiple DeRosa builders in Italy.

    Oh - and the carbon fork was odd too, for a vintage bicycle.

    Do you have any info you could share???
    It is NOT an Ugo De Rosa, nor is it of the same quality. There have been discussions about this on the roadbikereview forum. It is not a counterfeit, just another builder with the surname 'De Rosa'.

  10. #10
    The Recycled Cycler markwebb's Avatar
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    My Marinoni is coming with a DeRosa stem - I'll probably swap it out and sell it to someone that needs a pantographed DeRosa stem. It is kinda ironic; I would have bought the DeRosa if the idiot had not bid the $200, instead I ended up with another bike with a DeRosa stem

    So what's up with the two DeRosa marques? Is the DeRosa with a heart in the "O" the second DeRosa/not as coveted/not as high quality?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Check Out My Gal - Folk Singer Molly McCormack : http://www.mollymccormack.com

  11. #11
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet sanchEz View Post
    Odd, the De Rosa linked in the auction reminds me of my Marinoni Special:



    Jet did you pick that one up recently? I know you were coveting one. That is the first one of the 3 colour fade jobs that I actually like.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  12. #12
    Senior Member jet sanchEz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
    Jet did you pick that one up recently? I know you were coveting one. That is the first one of the 3 colour fade jobs that I actually like.
    Hehe, covet is certainly the right word, yes. After chasing down many other Marinonis and cluttering up the forum with a new thread every other week asking about each one's value, I finally snagged one in my size and for a good price. It is a Special and Marinoni just emailled me back last week with this response, based on the serial number:

    Hi,
    Built and sold in February 1987. Size 57cm. c. to c., built with Columbus SLX tubing and the original colour was light purple and silver.
    Simone


    It is full Dura Ace 6-speed and rides very very nicely, I love it

    The paint-job was kinda garish to my eyes at first but now I've grown accustomed to it and like the way it looks. I think it will need to be re-painted though, there are some rough marks underneath the top-tube. I got some white decals, exactly the same as the ones that are on your blue one, in fact. I think I may go with red, I don't have a red bike. Or maybe back to the light purple?

    Here is a shot of what it looked like when I got it:

    Last edited by jet sanchEz; 11-05-07 at 11:12 PM.

  13. #13
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    Oops, you mean that this isn't the "post your pictures of sexy Marinoni's with the Italian flag paint scheme"...my bad
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14
    Senior Member jet sanchEz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1337 View Post
    Oops, you mean that this isn't the "post your pictures of sexy Marinoni's with the Italian flag paint scheme"...my bad
    It is now!






  15. #15
    Senior Member Jurgen's Avatar
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    Wow. That's beautiful.

    I f'en love my Marinoni.

  16. #16
    Senior Member jet sanchEz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurgen View Post
    Wow. That's beautiful.

    I f'en love my Marinoni.
    Thanks! Perhaps we need a Marinoni thread with photos and info. I think there is a lot of confusion around the older Marinonis since the company often just slapped a generic Columbus decal on the frames, regardless of what level of Columbus tubing was used. At least, that is my sense of it. Cyclotoine is the expert.

  17. #17
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet sanchEz View Post
    Thanks! Perhaps we need a Marinoni thread with photos and info. I think there is a lot of confusion around the older Marinonis since the company often just slapped a generic Columbus decal on the frames, regardless of what level of Columbus tubing was used. At least, that is my sense of it. Cyclotoine is the expert.
    Actually T-mar is the expert, he just spits out fact and never lets any personal stuff slip. Anyway he helped me with my marinoni when I got my first one. Since then I have bought 5 more, only 2 of which I now have. The serial number sequence is simple. The first number is the year and of course you can guess which decade by looking at the bike. However Marinoni has every bike on file so you can find out exactly what tubing it is made out of. I once bought a non-special with a tre-tubi decal, you would think that sucks but I emailed marinoni and was pleased to find the main triangle was SP and the stays and fork were cromor. Not bad for a tre-tubi bike! This is what Giuseppe (sp?) was known for, mixing tubes. You will never find a 62cm marinoni made out of SL or SLX, either. I guess Gieseppe liked to make his frames stiff. In anycase I love the way they ride... soon I will have a very old full 531 bike with the same 62x59 measurements as my marinonis to compare ride quality of a true custom 531 machine (Corky) to a Columbus machine. Anyway enough ranting.

    Leigh30 has the marinoni frame I have been coveting for over a year now. I have found other marinonis by posting wanted ads for this exact bike, but I haven't found it, somehow he found it before me. An early 80s special in red and my favorite size 62x59 and mint! post some pics leigh. Here are my 2 62x59s.

    I took the seatbag off




    In addition here are some rough guidelines for marinonis

    First production bikes appeared in 1975 and had no castings or cutouts



    A rare 1976 with fleur de lis (sp?) cutouts and Quebec in the crown



    By the late 70s the famous maple leaf cutout was being used with marinoni cast into the fork crown which lasted to about 1982ish
    The marinoni is not filled in on mine as it is a repaint and the painted laid it on too thick




    Note: pictured above are 2 pista fork crowns a 1981 and 1982, notice the flat crown on the '81 and semi-sloping on the 1982.

    After that the marinoni script became common on the flat seatstay caps (as seen on several above photos) which were previously plain and the asymmetrical M with a circle or oval was added to the fork crown and the M was cutout on the BB and head lugs.




    Non special models often sported just an M on the seatstay cap.
    Last edited by cyclotoine; 11-06-07 at 01:50 PM.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  18. #18
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    The fleur de lis and quebec logo also reappeared in the late 80s



    around 1991ish the seatstay caps dissappeared in favour of stays that ran right into the seat lug


    The M cutout remained on the lugs and forks.
    I am not sure what year marinoni stopped making steel frames but I am sure it was in the late 90s.

    Around 1997/98 the hideous fork without a lugged crown and tube bending directly into the steartube appeared. Hideous!

    The decals also evolved overtime, but that I know less about, the graphics around "Marinoni" was added sometime in the late 80s... in the 70s and early 80s it just said marinoni and on the seattube it had world champion stripe on a diagonal above Marinoni and the M on the headtube was encircle in world champion colours. I have seen this older scheme as late as 1987 and the newer scheme as early as 1984. In the 1990s the graphics evolved more but I know less about the changes to the decals over time.
    Last edited by cyclotoine; 11-06-07 at 01:57 PM.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  19. #19
    Senior Member Jurgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jet sanchEz View Post
    Thanks! Perhaps we need a Marinoni thread with photos and info.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by jet sanchEz View Post
    I think there is a lot of confusion around the older Marinonis since the company often just slapped a generic Columbus decal on the frames, regardless of what level of Columbus tubing was used.
    I actually don't know much about my adopted one. It's "allegedly" SL with 600 8-speed STI which would date it somewhere between '92 and '97, I'm guessing.

  20. #20
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurgen View Post
    +1



    I actually don't know much about my adopted one. It's "allegedly" SL with 600 8-speed STI which would date it somewhere between '92 and '97, I'm guessing.
    Flip it over, the first digit in the serial number (on the BB shell) will tell you what year in the 90s it is.

    Edit: I sold a '96 corse with full 600 but it was an 88/89 6speed group like new. It was columbus Brain and had the Brain Sticker. If your bike is SL my guess is that it is '92-'94. Also I think by the mid '90s 600 was called 600ultegra not sure what year the 600 was dropped.
    Last edited by cyclotoine; 11-06-07 at 02:21 PM.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  21. #21
    Senior Member Jurgen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
    Flip it over the first digit in the serial number (on the BB shell) will tell you have year in the 90s it is.
    Swwweeeeet.

  22. #22
    The Recycled Cycler markwebb's Avatar
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    This is a great thread - it seems thee bikes are quite sought after for riders, collectors, and old farts in "the know".

    Whenever I see an interesting steel lugged frame on eBay or somewhere else, I use Bike Forums, Sheldon's site, and Classic Bicycle Guide as my starting points. Sheldon's site is becoming less useful - I think it was last updated 5 years ago and it does not covr all important marques. There's also individual marque sites that I use, but I start with these 3. A search Sunday nite on BF turned up lots of info about just how special these Marinoni Special vintage lugged frames are, and at the price being asked on eBay it appeared to be a steel steal !!! In this regard BF is always a great resource for such research.

    Now - if the bike arrives and has dents, forks are bent, and components worn out I'll be disappointed - but we'll see.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Check Out My Gal - Folk Singer Molly McCormack : http://www.mollymccormack.com

  23. #23
    Who cares, just ride it!
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    Okay Anthony. The picture is not very good, but will do for now until I get a better one...



    It's a 1987 model Special sporting a full Campy Triomphe group and Ambrosio Montreal Durex tubs. Tubing is Columbus SP. Stiff and rides great...
    N-1 is my long-term goal

  24. #24
    Senior Member ricohman's Avatar
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    My 88' special with Ofmega will be soon be a period correct Campy Chorus bike.
    My lbs is scrounging up an 88' grouppo for my Marinoni which is also an 88' by the serial number.
    Easily my favorite of all my bikes. I've wanted one since I was a teenager.


  25. #25
    tuz
    tuz is offline
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    Okay... mine is more modern form 95, still lugged though
    Mostly Campy 8sp Veloce, but with many mismatches as you can see.
    SLX tubing, "fastback" seatstays, internally lugged fork, internal routing for the rear brake, no "M" in the BB shell

    Last edited by tuz; 11-07-07 at 11:51 AM.
    homebuilt commuter, mixte, road and track (+ Ryffranck road)
    bla bla blog

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