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Old 11-11-07, 10:59 PM   #1
fish0n
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Surly says: 4130 Cromo frame's don't last very long?

I was on the Surly website looking at their bikes, and I was considering possibly building my next "new" bike, some time in the late future. And then I realized that all their bikes were 4130 Cromo. I thought "well my 11.8 is made out of the same stuff, why not slap some higher quality parts on it?" But then I was looking at an article on their blog about caring for a steel frame and in the first paragraph they state "steel has a special ride, snappy, comfy. With a bit of care, it'll ride the same in 10 or 15 years as it does now." Wow you don't say, a whole 10, and hey if your really lucky 15 years, until it turns to junk?! So what do you all have to say about that? Is a 4130 Cromo frame's prime only up to 15 years, and then what? I find that "fact" hard to believe.

Also, on a side note, I was hit on my 11.8 a couple months ago, and though I don't see any damage to the frame is it possible it still could have weakened it?
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Old 11-11-07, 11:00 PM   #2
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Their lawyers helping to protect their behinds in whatever statements they make about guaranteeing their frames.

Probably protecting against fixed gear riders who, after 20,495,239 crashes or jumps with said bike, complain and sue - 15 years since they purchased it new - over a cracked chainstay.

-Kurt
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Old 11-11-07, 11:28 PM   #3
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Doesn't sound like they were stating fact, just trying to market the product to everyday Joe who doesn't ride the same bike for more than a year

We all know that steel lasts a lot longer than that, we have a lot of proof on our side, just look in our garages!
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Old 11-12-07, 01:15 AM   #4
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OH CRAP!!! I got my Surly in 98... It's time is almost up!!!
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Old 11-12-07, 01:46 AM   #5
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Sooooo..my '68 Reynolds 531 is built from...Kryptonite??
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Old 11-12-07, 02:05 AM   #6
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"... With a bit of care, it'll ride the same in 10 or 15 years as it does now."

Boggles the mind. ... Since they build with it, why would they inadvertently knock it too? - Just Stupid?

Then again, consider the source...

So, what's up with the "Hot-Pants" and "Halter-Top" look modelled by this dude on their website?

Is this the man who values "... a special ride, snappy, comfy..." and carried over to his attire, too?

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Old 11-12-07, 03:43 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by stronglight View Post
"... With a bit of care, it'll ride the same in 10 or 15 years as it does now."

Boggles the mind. ... Since they build with it, why would they inadvertently knock it too? - Just Stupid?

Then again, consider the source...

So, what's up with the "Hot-Pants" and "Halter-Top" look modelled by this dude on their website?

Is this the man who values "... a special ride, snappy, comfy..." and carried over to his attire, too?

LOL

It looks like they are marketing to a very mature crowd with those adds.


Tim
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Old 11-12-07, 04:02 AM   #8
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So, what's up with the "Hot-Pants" and "Halter-Top" look modelled by this dude on their website?
- note the caesarean scar right above the bikini line... that man has given birth!
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Old 11-12-07, 05:50 AM   #9
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Is that his real hairline or did he have that done to look more "Snappy"?
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Old 11-12-07, 07:14 AM   #10
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"... With a bit of care, it'll ride the same in 10 or 15 years as it does now."

Boggles the mind. ... Since they build with it, why would they inadvertently knock it too? - Just Stupid?
I don't want to be stating the obvious here, but to their minds they're NOT knocking it. They're positioning it very well against frames that might only last 7 or 8 years (aluminium), and frames that will shatter if you lean them against a lampost to heavily (carbon fibre). It doesn't say that's the upper limit at all, either, just that they'll last that long.
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Old 11-12-07, 07:18 AM   #11
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hucking, sickin suck-up, triple chain suck, and table dropping on any bike for 10-15 years is a very long time. Riding daintly along (me) for 50-60 years (GOD WILLING) is no problemo for 4130.
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Old 11-12-07, 07:22 AM   #12
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I don't want to be stating the obvious here, but to their minds they're NOT knocking it. They're positioning it very well against frames that might only last 7 or 8 years (aluminium), and frames that will shatter if you lean them against a lampost to heavily (carbon fibre). It doesn't say that's the upper limit at all, either, just that they'll last that long.
+1....I don't think the numbers they're using mean anything at all, really. They're just saying you can buy one of their frames and enjoy it without worrying about its durability.

I like Surlys, their specialty is good quality, affordable steel frames. If only they were lugged!

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Old 11-12-07, 07:35 AM   #13
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if you don't ride through puddles intentionally
to spash old ladies crossing the street
then you don't deserve a surly
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Old 11-12-07, 09:21 AM   #14
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As many of you know, my 1971 Nishiki Semi-Pro frame did break at the bottom bracket shell after 20 years and 40k mi / 65k km. This included a number of out-of-saddle climbs, which are tough on the bottom bracket and the downtube. I also broke a carbon steel Peugeot UO-8 between the chainstay clearance dimples at the 25-year mark, probably after fewer cumulative miles.

Nonetheless, steel continues to serve me well (see signature) and I still trust it to outlast either aluminum or carbon fiber.
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Old 11-12-07, 09:28 AM   #15
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I would put my money on the steel any day. I realize it isn't CroMo 4130 but I have a Raleigh Sports that gas gone, so far, for 35 years with no frame issues and has well over 25,000 documented miles on it. If a steel bike is cared for and ridden well with minimal abuse I don't think daily use over a 30-50 year span is out of the question. I do have a CroMo Motobecane that hasn't had the best treatment but it also over 30 years old and still ridable.

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Old 11-12-07, 11:04 AM   #16
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I'm sure the person who came up with "10 or 15 years" really just meant "a long time".

You have to remember this is the C & V forum. The bikes we discuss are often older than the people who frequent the Surly website. When you're only 20 or 30 yourself, 10 to 15 years seems like a long time and a more than adequate lifetime for a bike.

Most people buying a Surly today probably aren't thinking it's something they'll still be riding in 10 or 15 years.
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Old 11-12-07, 11:24 AM   #17
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I've got a Raleigh Technium fram I've been riding that long, and no when I got it it never occured to me I'd still have it after all this time, but it never occurred to me think I WOULDN'T.

Anyway, my take is Surly wants you to know that Steel frames last a good long time, but they also want you to buy a new frame. They don't want to promote the idea that 30 year old frames might be as good as or better than their brand new frames. In fact a n ice vintage lugged 531 frame can often be had for much less than a brand new Surly frame, and is indeed a better frame. Heck as many of you know a full 531 pre-84 Trek frame can occasionally be scored on the curb!
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Old 11-12-07, 11:48 AM   #18
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"With a bit of care, it'll ride the same in 10 or 15 years as it does now"

That is so very innocuous, guys. Why on earth would you jump all over it and take it to mean "it will only be good for 15 years"? They're just letting people know their bikes last and chose 10 or 15 years as the number to illustrate that point. And they probably chose those numbers because they're really talking about ownership, not how long the bike will last. As in, 'you buy this bike today, if you still own it say 10 or 15 years from now, it will ride the same.'

As opposed to: "With a bit of care, 30 or 40 years from now some guy will be riding around the bike you once owned because steel lasts that long. Or maybe the 3rd owner threw it in the trash but someone is going to pull it out and still be able to ride it and he'll tell everyone at bikeforums 4.0 what a great find he made."
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Old 11-12-07, 11:56 AM   #19
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[B]"
As opposed to: "With a bit of care, 30 or 40 years from now some guy will be riding around the bike you once owned because steel lasts that long. Or maybe the 3rd owner threw it in the trash but someone is going to pull it out and still be able to ride it and he'll tell everyone at bikeforums 4.0 what a great find he made."


I'd feel better buying a bike knowing that some day a guy might rescue it from the trash ;-)
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Old 11-12-07, 12:34 PM   #20
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In comparison to most modern bikes, Surly builds theirs like tanks for a good reason:

They are built to last, period.

(Hopefully I will have a Pugsley by the end of winter).
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Old 11-12-07, 05:10 PM   #21
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I'm also sure they meant "a very long time".

I ride the Instigator as my XC bike, with a some hooliganism thrown in on the side for good measure. What a comfortable frame

I can't resist posting a picture of it. Here it is with the bob trailer that I used to help me move my stuff into my house.

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Old 11-12-07, 08:04 PM   #22
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It really must have hurt when you bent that toptube.
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Old 11-12-07, 08:47 PM   #23
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Anybody interested in emailing them to get the truth from the horses mouth as to this statement?

P.S., Kevin - that's the first and only Surly I've ever liked the looks of (in terms of MTB's, of course). Nice machine.

-Kurt
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Old 11-13-07, 02:02 AM   #24
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If you think carefully about what they're saying, they're saying that in 10-15 years, it'll be like new. Which actually, is rather encouraging.
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Old 11-13-07, 05:16 AM   #25
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Thank you for the compliment, even though she is quite dirty I hope to have this ride for a long time.
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