Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-17-07, 08:44 PM   #1
MnHPVA Guy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Bikes:
Posts: 754
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sturmey Archer 4 speed shifting woes.

Has anyone come up with a cure for difficulty shifting FWs and FMs into "Bottom" gear? It seems the planet gear is fully bottomed onto the axle splines before enough cable is pulled to allow the trigger to click into the last position. When I do get the trigger to click, the cable is scarry tight.

I've thought of some possibilities, but none seem like "Plan A";

1. Adjusting the cable such that the left indicator is protruding slightly past the axle end when the trigger is in low. Unfortunately this will throw off adjustment in low and direct.

2. Install a stiff spring between the cable and the indicator chain.

3. Take the trigger apart and remove some metal from the last notch. I really don't want to do this, but if it's worked for someone else.....

4. Shortening the compensator spring. Again, no "undo" button on this option.
MnHPVA Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-07, 10:07 PM   #2
LWaB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Auld Blighty
Bikes: Early Cannondale tandem, '99 S&S Frezoni Audax, '65 Moulton Stowaway, '52 Claud Butler, TSR30, Brompton
Posts: 2,240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
4 speeds always have the cable really tight but it sounds like yours is really, really tight. Have you dismantled it and possibly changed the cone locations? This can cause problems.
LWaB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-07, 06:45 AM   #3
wahoonc
Senior Member
 
wahoonc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Posts: 16,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think the spring option may work too. IIRC at least some of the Raleighs I have seen came with a small spring in the cable already. The only bike I have with feature happens to be my 1968 Compact RSW with an 3 speed hub, twist grip shifter. It is also one of the ones that has the cable housing run all the way down to the chain stay.

Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
_Nicodemus

"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
_krazygluon
wahoonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-07, 10:08 AM   #4
coelcanth
hunter, gatherer
 
coelcanth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yes that's a good point,

i guess you already know but there were some official s-a indicators offered this way to prevent cable breakage problems.. i think they were mostly found on sting rays and muscle bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by MnHPVA Guy View Post

2. Install a stiff spring between the cable and the indicator chain.
coelcanth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-07, 10:45 AM   #5
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,570
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sturmey-Archer-I...QQcmdZViewItem
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-07, 01:49 PM   #6
385xza
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Had similar issues when setting up an FG 4 speed and cured it by adjusting the fulcrum clip to allow more cable movement.
385xza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-07, 02:39 PM   #7
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 9,903
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
The main issue I've found with FM and FW hubs is that the triggers need to be in excellent shape to have the leverage/spring power to pull that lowest gear. But it sounds like the performance of yours has gotten worse over time, Mark?

Neal
nlerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-07, 07:32 PM   #8
MnHPVA Guy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Bikes:
Posts: 754
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtdrop View Post
I have some of those, and know where there are a few thousand more. I also have a set of 4 speed shifter rods missing the chain. Time to figure out a really tiny rivet to splice them together. Can't imagine needing the spring on a 3 speed. Might be useful on the left side of an S5/1 or S5/2.
MnHPVA Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-07, 07:44 PM   #9
MnHPVA Guy
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Bikes:
Posts: 754
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
But it sounds like the performance of yours has gotten worse over time, Mark?
Neal
Both hubs are fairly new to me, but are in excellent condition internally. The problem showed up right away. Some shifters work better than others with them. I have a few more FWs but unless I can make them more user friendly I'll stick with my S5s on newer bikes. The hubs in question are on a 1950 Norman and a 1957 RRA. Too old to look right with dual cables.

I've thought about assembling just everything that goes on the axle and installing the result on a bike without the planet cage, driver and shell. Then I could see if the sun gear is bottoming too soon and see what the effect running the cable a couple of turns loose would have on low and direct.
MnHPVA Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-09, 10:06 AM   #10
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Posts: 15,669
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Bump, because my 1950 Norman may have the same problem.

Mark, what kind of success have you had with fixing the tiny rivets on the indicator chains? I believe I will be learning to do this myself in the near future, and would appreciate the opportunity to benefit from your advice.

Rudi
rhm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-09, 07:15 AM   #11
waverley610
waverley610
 
waverley610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Straight out of Surrey
Bikes: ~ Unknown 1930's double top tube roadster ~ 1954 JAMES Arrow Ace hub geared club machine ~ 1959 All Steel Raleigh ~
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hello, my first time using the forums.
So I have a Sturmey Archer FG 4speed dynohub and now a matching 4 speed trigger;
to connect the two, what sort of cable will I need?

i.e. Is there a common cable for 3 & 4 speed hubs or will I need to find a 4speed cable?
Do I need a correct length with nipples on the end, or just buy and cut to size?

Thanks for looking, all help and advice welcome.
waverley610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-09, 07:39 AM   #12
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Posts: 15,669
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
The cable, I think, is standard. The end at the hub is a adjusting long barrel that screws onto the indicator. You can also get an adapter that is basically the adjusting barrel with a cable clamp so you can use a different cable.

Equally important, and perhaps more difficult: do you have the correct indicator for the hub? The indicator for the four-speed hub can be hard to find.

I can't find a photo of the four speed indicator, but the three speed one, which is common, looks like this:
Do you have something that looks more or less like that?
rhm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-09, 07:48 AM   #13
waverley610
waverley610
 
waverley610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Straight out of Surrey
Bikes: ~ Unknown 1930's double top tube roadster ~ 1954 JAMES Arrow Ace hub geared club machine ~ 1959 All Steel Raleigh ~
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks. Yes, I have.. it's protruding from the hub
waverley610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-09, 07:54 AM   #14
rhm
multimodal commuter
 
rhm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Posts: 15,669
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by waverley610 View Post
Thanks. Yes, I have.. it's protruding from the hub
Oh, good. That's the hard-to-find part. The barrel on the standard cable screws onto that. Once you have that, you just need to know how to adjust it. Someone posted the directions, let me see if I can find them.

_____________________________________________________________________
Edit:
Yes! See if this isn't a big help to you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stronglight View Post
...
In the following Set on Flickr you will find the last 6 images are about the 4-speed hub. It seems the "FW" was a very useful wide ratio gear, first introduced on 1939, it immediately won an award from the CTC - the famous British cycle touring club (who's members number in the tens of thousands) for being the best cycling innovation of that year. The pages here are from my 1956 Sturmey Archer Master Catalogue, but I'm sure the design would not have changed much at all since 1949. So, the parts illustration may be useful should you ever need to disassemble or repair the hub. Just click on an image and when it opens in a new window select the "All Sizes" button above the picture to pull up a large size suitable for printing or downloading to your PC for future reference.

Here is another handy link to play with if you are curious about the actual gearing in use on your bike, as set up with that specific chainring and rear sprocket combination. By changing one or the other you can alter the entire gearing for the bike, so this is both fun trivia and a potentially useful tool. Gear Calculator To use this gear calculator you can use the drop-down selections or manually key in your data for each option in the chart at the top of the page. Under "Custom Cassette" just enter the number of teeth on the single rear cog in the first box... then select your FW hub in the last box under "Internal Hub" and then click "Calculate" The window which pops up will show you the exact gear for each click of the trigger selector. You can figure your gear inches for each pedal rotation, or see how fast in MPH you are traveling at a given pedaling cadence. Big Fun!
...

Last edited by rhm; 08-11-09 at 08:00 AM.
rhm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-09, 08:10 AM   #15
waverley610
waverley610
 
waverley610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Straight out of Surrey
Bikes: ~ Unknown 1930's double top tube roadster ~ 1954 JAMES Arrow Ace hub geared club machine ~ 1959 All Steel Raleigh ~
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow, this forum is a great resource, thanks for sharing rhm, also plenty of useful stuff on the SA website archive section if anyone is looking for help.

I'm looking forward to getting all geared up in the near future!

Chas
waverley610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-09, 08:22 AM   #16
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 9,903
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
This page from that 1956 S-A catalog on "Fitting and Adjustment" contains setup instructions that have worked for me:

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ha...a/safitadj.pdf

Neal
nlerner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-09, 10:44 AM   #17
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Posts: 16,373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhm View Post
The cable, I think, is standard. The end at the hub is a adjusting long barrel that screws onto the indicator. You can also get an adapter that is basically the adjusting barrel with a cable clamp so you can use a different cable.

Equally important, and perhaps more difficult: do you have the correct indicator for the hub? The indicator for the four-speed hub can be hard to find.

I can't find a photo of the four speed indicator, but the three speed one, which is common, looks like this:
Do you have something that looks more or less like that?
Maybe this?

JohnDThompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:43 PM.