Sturmey Archer 4 speed shifting woes.
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 798
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 24 Times
in
11 Posts
Sturmey Archer 4 speed shifting woes.
Has anyone come up with a cure for difficulty shifting FWs and FMs into "Bottom" gear? It seems the planet gear is fully bottomed onto the axle splines before enough cable is pulled to allow the trigger to click into the last position. When I do get the trigger to click, the cable is scarry tight.
I've thought of some possibilities, but none seem like "Plan A";
1. Adjusting the cable such that the left indicator is protruding slightly past the axle end when the trigger is in low. Unfortunately this will throw off adjustment in low and direct.
2. Install a stiff spring between the cable and the indicator chain.
3. Take the trigger apart and remove some metal from the last notch. I really don't want to do this, but if it's worked for someone else.....
4. Shortening the compensator spring. Again, no "undo" button on this option.
I've thought of some possibilities, but none seem like "Plan A";
1. Adjusting the cable such that the left indicator is protruding slightly past the axle end when the trigger is in low. Unfortunately this will throw off adjustment in low and direct.
2. Install a stiff spring between the cable and the indicator chain.
3. Take the trigger apart and remove some metal from the last notch. I really don't want to do this, but if it's worked for someone else.....
4. Shortening the compensator spring. Again, no "undo" button on this option.
#2
Senior Member
4 speeds always have the cable really tight but it sounds like yours is really, really tight. Have you dismantled it and possibly changed the cone locations? This can cause problems.
#3
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times
in
14 Posts
I think the spring option may work too. IIRC at least some of the Raleighs I have seen came with a small spring in the cable already. The only bike I have with feature happens to be my 1968 Compact RSW with an 3 speed hub, twist grip shifter. It is also one of the ones that has the cable housing run all the way down to the chain stay.
Aaron
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#4
hunter, gatherer
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
yes that's a good point,
i guess you already know but there were some official s-a indicators offered this way to prevent cable breakage problems.. i think they were mostly found on sting rays and muscle bikes
i guess you already know but there were some official s-a indicators offered this way to prevent cable breakage problems.. i think they were mostly found on sting rays and muscle bikes
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,178
Mentioned: 481 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3817 Post(s)
Liked 6,750 Times
in
2,626 Posts
The main issue I've found with FM and FW hubs is that the triggers need to be in excellent shape to have the leverage/spring power to pull that lowest gear. But it sounds like the performance of yours has gotten worse over time, Mark?
Neal
Neal
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 798
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 24 Times
in
11 Posts
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 798
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 24 Times
in
11 Posts
I've thought about assembling just everything that goes on the axle and installing the result on a bike without the planet cage, driver and shell. Then I could see if the sun gear is bottoming too soon and see what the effect running the cable a couple of turns loose would have on low and direct.
#10
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
Bump, because my 1950 Norman may have the same problem.
Mark, what kind of success have you had with fixing the tiny rivets on the indicator chains? I believe I will be learning to do this myself in the near future, and would appreciate the opportunity to benefit from your advice.
Rudi
Mark, what kind of success have you had with fixing the tiny rivets on the indicator chains? I believe I will be learning to do this myself in the near future, and would appreciate the opportunity to benefit from your advice.
Rudi
#11
waverley610
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Straight out of Surrey
Posts: 77
Bikes: ~ Unknown 1930's double top tube roadster ~ 1954 JAMES Arrow Ace hub geared club machine ~ 1959 All Steel Raleigh ~
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Hello, my first time using the forums.
So I have a Sturmey Archer FG 4speed dynohub and now a matching 4 speed trigger;
to connect the two, what sort of cable will I need?
i.e. Is there a common cable for 3 & 4 speed hubs or will I need to find a 4speed cable?
Do I need a correct length with nipples on the end, or just buy and cut to size?
Thanks for looking, all help and advice welcome.
So I have a Sturmey Archer FG 4speed dynohub and now a matching 4 speed trigger;
to connect the two, what sort of cable will I need?
i.e. Is there a common cable for 3 & 4 speed hubs or will I need to find a 4speed cable?
Do I need a correct length with nipples on the end, or just buy and cut to size?
Thanks for looking, all help and advice welcome.
#12
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
The cable, I think, is standard. The end at the hub is a adjusting long barrel that screws onto the indicator. You can also get an adapter that is basically the adjusting barrel with a cable clamp so you can use a different cable.
Equally important, and perhaps more difficult: do you have the correct indicator for the hub? The indicator for the four-speed hub can be hard to find.
I can't find a photo of the four speed indicator, but the three speed one, which is common, looks like this:
Do you have something that looks more or less like that?
Equally important, and perhaps more difficult: do you have the correct indicator for the hub? The indicator for the four-speed hub can be hard to find.
I can't find a photo of the four speed indicator, but the three speed one, which is common, looks like this:
Do you have something that looks more or less like that?
#13
waverley610
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Straight out of Surrey
Posts: 77
Bikes: ~ Unknown 1930's double top tube roadster ~ 1954 JAMES Arrow Ace hub geared club machine ~ 1959 All Steel Raleigh ~
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Thanks. Yes, I have.. it's protruding from the hub
#14
multimodal commuter
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NJ, NYC, LI
Posts: 19,808
Bikes: 1940s Fothergill, 1959 Allegro Special, 1963? Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, Lambert 'Clubman', 1974 Fuji "the Ace", 1976 Holdsworth 650b conversion rando bike, 1983 Trek 720 tourer, 1984 Counterpoint Opus II, 1993 Basso Gap, 2010 Downtube 8h, and...
Mentioned: 584 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 574 Times
in
339 Posts
Oh, good. That's the hard-to-find part. The barrel on the standard cable screws onto that. Once you have that, you just need to know how to adjust it. Someone posted the directions, let me see if I can find them.
_____________________________________________________________________
Edit:
Yes! See if this isn't a big help to you:
_____________________________________________________________________
Edit:
Yes! See if this isn't a big help to you:
...
In the following Set on Flickr you will find the last 6 images are about the 4-speed hub. It seems the "FW" was a very useful wide ratio gear, first introduced on 1939, it immediately won an award from the CTC - the famous British cycle touring club (who's members number in the tens of thousands) for being the best cycling innovation of that year. The pages here are from my 1956 Sturmey Archer Master Catalogue, but I'm sure the design would not have changed much at all since 1949. So, the parts illustration may be useful should you ever need to disassemble or repair the hub. Just click on an image and when it opens in a new window select the "All Sizes" button above the picture to pull up a large size suitable for printing or downloading to your PC for future reference.
Here is another handy link to play with if you are curious about the actual gearing in use on your bike, as set up with that specific chainring and rear sprocket combination. By changing one or the other you can alter the entire gearing for the bike, so this is both fun trivia and a potentially useful tool. Gear Calculator To use this gear calculator you can use the drop-down selections or manually key in your data for each option in the chart at the top of the page. Under "Custom Cassette" just enter the number of teeth on the single rear cog in the first box... then select your FW hub in the last box under "Internal Hub" and then click "Calculate" The window which pops up will show you the exact gear for each click of the trigger selector. You can figure your gear inches for each pedal rotation, or see how fast in MPH you are traveling at a given pedaling cadence. Big Fun!
...
In the following Set on Flickr you will find the last 6 images are about the 4-speed hub. It seems the "FW" was a very useful wide ratio gear, first introduced on 1939, it immediately won an award from the CTC - the famous British cycle touring club (who's members number in the tens of thousands) for being the best cycling innovation of that year. The pages here are from my 1956 Sturmey Archer Master Catalogue, but I'm sure the design would not have changed much at all since 1949. So, the parts illustration may be useful should you ever need to disassemble or repair the hub. Just click on an image and when it opens in a new window select the "All Sizes" button above the picture to pull up a large size suitable for printing or downloading to your PC for future reference.
Here is another handy link to play with if you are curious about the actual gearing in use on your bike, as set up with that specific chainring and rear sprocket combination. By changing one or the other you can alter the entire gearing for the bike, so this is both fun trivia and a potentially useful tool. Gear Calculator To use this gear calculator you can use the drop-down selections or manually key in your data for each option in the chart at the top of the page. Under "Custom Cassette" just enter the number of teeth on the single rear cog in the first box... then select your FW hub in the last box under "Internal Hub" and then click "Calculate" The window which pops up will show you the exact gear for each click of the trigger selector. You can figure your gear inches for each pedal rotation, or see how fast in MPH you are traveling at a given pedaling cadence. Big Fun!
...
Last edited by rhm; 08-11-09 at 08:00 AM.
#15
waverley610
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Straight out of Surrey
Posts: 77
Bikes: ~ Unknown 1930's double top tube roadster ~ 1954 JAMES Arrow Ace hub geared club machine ~ 1959 All Steel Raleigh ~
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Wow, this forum is a great resource, thanks for sharing rhm, also plenty of useful stuff on the SA website archive section if anyone is looking for help.
I'm looking forward to getting all geared up in the near future!
Chas
I'm looking forward to getting all geared up in the near future!
Chas
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,178
Mentioned: 481 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3817 Post(s)
Liked 6,750 Times
in
2,626 Posts
This page from that 1956 S-A catalog on "Fitting and Adjustment" contains setup instructions that have worked for me:
https://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ha...a/safitadj.pdf
Neal
https://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ha...a/safitadj.pdf
Neal
#17
Old fart
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,822
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Mentioned: 154 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3601 Post(s)
Liked 3,429 Times
in
1,949 Posts
The cable, I think, is standard. The end at the hub is a adjusting long barrel that screws onto the indicator. You can also get an adapter that is basically the adjusting barrel with a cable clamp so you can use a different cable.
Equally important, and perhaps more difficult: do you have the correct indicator for the hub? The indicator for the four-speed hub can be hard to find.
I can't find a photo of the four speed indicator, but the three speed one, which is common, looks like this:
Do you have something that looks more or less like that?
Equally important, and perhaps more difficult: do you have the correct indicator for the hub? The indicator for the four-speed hub can be hard to find.
I can't find a photo of the four speed indicator, but the three speed one, which is common, looks like this:
Do you have something that looks more or less like that?