Vintage Suntour clearly bests vintage Campy
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
10 Posts
Vintage Suntour clearly bests vintage Campy
I have now jumped on the vintage Suntour bandwagon. I can't help but love the weight feel and look of the Suntour Cycle derailleur. It is clearly a better shifting lighter derailleur than the old Campagnolo record of the same era. Even the Suntour clamp on shifters are better.
My uncle gave me a beat up old motobecane and I noticed it had Suntour clamp on thumb shifters that had white plastic covers like the Campy design. The main difference is the action was a helluva lot less clunky. I will be getting rid of my Campy shifters...soon.
I sure am glad Suntour parts are still a good value today.
My uncle gave me a beat up old motobecane and I noticed it had Suntour clamp on thumb shifters that had white plastic covers like the Campy design. The main difference is the action was a helluva lot less clunky. I will be getting rid of my Campy shifters...soon.
I sure am glad Suntour parts are still a good value today.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Soviet of Oregon or Pensacola FL
Posts: 5,342
Bikes: Still have a few left!
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 467 Post(s)
Liked 532 Times
in
267 Posts
SunTour Cyclone is still a good value(cheap), but the Superbe stuff is getting spendy.
#3
Ho-Jahm
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 4,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
That's funny, I always felt like the machining of the cogs had more influence on shifting than the actual shifters and derailers.
#4
The Legitimiser
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 4,849
Bikes: Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
Infinitely more than the shifters, for certain. All friction shifters are pretty much alike, barring the plastic ones, which you can snap neatly, or Simplex Retrofriction and the like, which are a bit different. I'd be amazed if you could tell the difference between Campy and Suntour shifters, if they were connected to the same derailleurs and freewheel.
#5
crotchety young dude
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SF, CA
Posts: 4,818
Bikes: IRO Angus; Casati Gold Line; Redline 925; '72 Schwinn Olympic Paramount
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Until you look down.
#8
FSU Bulldogs Red Wave
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 68
Bikes: Bottecchia, Rocky Mountain, TREK, Bridgestone
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
A while ago I updated my wife's bike (a Raleigh road bike with Reynolds 531 tubes) to an index-shifting setup--yes, it was a long time ago. The original equipment was something by Suntour, and the upgrade was Suntour Superbe Pro: rear cogs (I think it's still a freewheel), deraileur, and shifters. Sounds like I did a good thing. Of course the bike is stored in the garage collecting dust particles....
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: n.w. superdrome
Posts: 17,687
Bikes: 1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times
in
9 Posts
I like Pie
__________________
Sono più lento di quel che sembra.
Odio la gente, tutti.
Want to upgrade your membership? Click Here.
Sono più lento di quel che sembra.
Odio la gente, tutti.
Want to upgrade your membership? Click Here.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yukon, Canada
Posts: 8,759
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times
in
14 Posts
I like pie with ice cream!
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
#12
www.theheadbadge.com
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 28,513
Bikes: https://www.theheadbadge.com
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2422 Post(s)
Liked 4,395 Times
in
2,092 Posts
#13
hunter, gatherer
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yukon, Canada
Posts: 8,759
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 16 Times
in
14 Posts
it's the quality of campy that makes us love it... you find a 1970 nuovo record derailleur and it's tight and the spring is strong (well sometimes they wear out).
Campy breaks in while shimano (suntour) break down.
I haven't had the pleasure of meeting superbe's acquaintance, but I have come across too many cyclone RD's with worn out springs and sloppy pivots (and therefore worked like crap). Granted the slant parallelogram makes early suntour the best shifting derailleur.
Campy breaks in while shimano (suntour) break down.
I haven't had the pleasure of meeting superbe's acquaintance, but I have come across too many cyclone RD's with worn out springs and sloppy pivots (and therefore worked like crap). Granted the slant parallelogram makes early suntour the best shifting derailleur.
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
#15
The Recycled Cycler
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,399
Bikes: Real Steel. Really. Ti is cool, too !
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I can remember back in the summer of '74. I had ridden my first Century in May (Vandenberg, now called the Solvang Century) on platforms/ no toe clips, and with the original plastic Simplex derailleurs that came with my UO-8. I saved up about $30 as I recall and bought a new Suntour rear derailleur and bar end shifters. I leaned bike up against the wall in my parents garage and installed the new stuff with a set of 4 wrenches and a few screwdrivers. I then wrapped bars with black cloth tape (the new cable housings for bar end shifters made me invest in a new roll of tape) and then I was set, let me tell you. I went Suntour because I could not afford the Campy at the time. The Suntour worked great. I even invested in a set of toe clips and black Italian leather cleated shoes.
Never even considered Campy - the only time I saw that stuff was on the Paramounts and Italian frames I passed while climbing in races
Never even considered Campy - the only time I saw that stuff was on the Paramounts and Italian frames I passed while climbing in races
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kennewick Washington
Posts: 192
Bikes: Holdsworth Professional(1984), Medici Pro Strada (mid 80's), Team Raliegh 753 (special build 1987?), Univega Ultraleggera (early 90's or late 80's)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
My old Holdsworth, that I newly converted to a cyclocross, has a mix of Superbe Pro and Campy Record components.
It has been ridden hard and the components have been used hard. I hope to get another 20 plus years of use out of this bike. The brakes are campy record. I like them over Superbe because the calipers are stiffer, the springs are stiffer, and it has the best barrel adjuster ever made. I like the Superbe Pro derailleurs. These are the last generation before index. They shift as well as any I have used. The sealed bearing pulleys are the smoothest you will ever find. I also have a set of first generation index Superbe Pro derailleurs. They are some of the most beautiful derailleurs ever as well as being some of the nicest made.
It has been ridden hard and the components have been used hard. I hope to get another 20 plus years of use out of this bike. The brakes are campy record. I like them over Superbe because the calipers are stiffer, the springs are stiffer, and it has the best barrel adjuster ever made. I like the Superbe Pro derailleurs. These are the last generation before index. They shift as well as any I have used. The sealed bearing pulleys are the smoothest you will ever find. I also have a set of first generation index Superbe Pro derailleurs. They are some of the most beautiful derailleurs ever as well as being some of the nicest made.
#17
Senior Member
I have only found a handful of truly broken/loose Japanese components. Most their ills can be cured by a quick soak in solvent and a re-lube. I've had some REALLY gummed up and ugly derailleurs shift and look like new after a little maintenance? You can ride anything in grit and wet conditions long enough and it will wear out.,,,,BD
__________________
So many bikes, so little dime.
So many bikes, so little dime.
#18
The Legitimiser
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Southampton, UK
Posts: 4,849
Bikes: Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
My experience is that Campy wears out at the same speed as everything of comparable quality, so the high end Suntour and Shimano kit. We love it because it's Campy, if we're at all honest.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 680
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Over the years,my own experience has been quite the opposite. I've always found that Campagnolo's aluminum alloys, anodizings,platings and bearing surfaces are consistantly tougher, stiffer, more durable and reliable than those of the top line Suntour or Shimano equivalents.To this day, I'm still using on a regular basis,Campy Nuovo Valentino & Nuovo Gran Sport, Nuovo and Super Record derailleurs, Record headsets, chainrings,hubs, pedals, cranksets & btm-bkts purchased new in the mid to late 70's.Concurrently, nearly every one of the Superbe Pro, Dura Ace & Crane equivalent components I owned simply wore out or showed significant wear with far fewer miles before they were eventually retired or sold. Where Suntour and Shimano gear excelled was in innovation and particularly shifting ease and smoothness that weren't(some would say have yet to be) matched by Campagnolo until modern times.
Last edited by caterham; 11-20-07 at 02:58 AM.
#20
juneeaa memba!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: boogled up in...Idaho!
Posts: 5,632
Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
I can remember back in the summer of '74. I had ridden my first Century in May (Vandenberg, now called the Solvang Century) on platforms/ no toe clips, and with the original plastic Simplex derailleurs that came with my UO-8. I saved up about $30 as I recall and bought a new Suntour rear derailleur and bar end shifters. I leaned bike up against the wall in my parents garage and installed the new stuff with a set of 4 wrenches and a few screwdrivers. I then wrapped bars with black cloth tape (the new cable housings for bar end shifters made me invest in a new roll of tape) and then I was set, let me tell you. I went Suntour because I could not afford the Campy at the time. The Suntour worked great. I even invested in a set of toe clips and black Italian leather cleated shoes.
Never even considered Campy - the only time I saw that stuff was on the Paramounts and Italian frames I passed while climbing in races
Never even considered Campy - the only time I saw that stuff was on the Paramounts and Italian frames I passed while climbing in races
#21
juneeaa memba!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: boogled up in...Idaho!
Posts: 5,632
Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Over the years,my own experience has been quite the opposite. I've always found that Campagnolo's aluminum alloys, anodizings,platings and bearing surfaces are consistantly tougher, stiffer, more durable and reliable than those of the top line Suntour or Shimano equivalents.To this day, I'm still using on a regular basis,Campy Nuovo Valentino & Nuovo Gran Sport, Nuovo and Super Record derailleurs, Record headsets, chainrings,hubs, pedals, cranksets & btm-bkts purchased new in the mid to late 70's.Concurrently, nearly every one of the Superbe Pro, Dura Ace & Crane equivalent components I owned simply wore out or showed significant wear with far fewer miles before they were eventually retired or sold. Where Suntour and Shimano gear excelled was in innovation and particularly shifting ease and smoothness that weren't(some would say have yet to be) matched by Campagnolo until modern times.
#22
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,798
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1393 Post(s)
Liked 1,326 Times
in
837 Posts
My personal experience, for what it's worth.
Front derailleurs: Campagnolo NR and SunTour Cyclone are comparable and very good, but having broken a SunTour at the mounting clamp, I give the edge to the Italians on craftsmanship and durability.
Rear deraillerus: I concur with Frank Berto regarding overshift in the Campagnolo NR, but one quickly learns how to compensate automatically.
Shifters: My ca. 1970 SunTour downtube levers, with their plastic inserts, were very difficult to tension just right for easy shifting without unintended upshifts. Campagnolo levers from the same vintage tend to require much less frequent retensioning.
Cogsets: I typically run 2-tooth progressions with an SRAM PC-58 chain. My least-favorite freewheels is my ca. 1980 Regina America 13-15-17-19-21-23. Upshifts are fast and crisp, but downshifts are occasionally slow, and I can sometimes (fortunately, rarely) skate the chain over the tops of the teeth on the 19T or 17T cog. I have an otherwise comparable standard 6-speed 14-16-18-20-23-26 SunTour Winner unit on the Bianchi, with the same chain and also with a Campagnolo parallelogram rear derailleur, and I greatly prefer the SunTour.
Chains: I use SRAM PC-58 exclusively and have a stash of spares and no plans to change.
Hubsets: A look at the cones and races of my 1960 Campagnolo NR units is enough to make anyone a believer -- Campagnolo bearing surfaces are accurately machined and extremely durable. The first owner had neglected maintenance in a way which would have damaged Normandy hubs severely, but these Campagnolo hubs have cleaned up beautifully, and the axles spin smoothly and easily with new ball bearings on the old cones and races.
Front derailleurs: Campagnolo NR and SunTour Cyclone are comparable and very good, but having broken a SunTour at the mounting clamp, I give the edge to the Italians on craftsmanship and durability.
Rear deraillerus: I concur with Frank Berto regarding overshift in the Campagnolo NR, but one quickly learns how to compensate automatically.
Shifters: My ca. 1970 SunTour downtube levers, with their plastic inserts, were very difficult to tension just right for easy shifting without unintended upshifts. Campagnolo levers from the same vintage tend to require much less frequent retensioning.
Cogsets: I typically run 2-tooth progressions with an SRAM PC-58 chain. My least-favorite freewheels is my ca. 1980 Regina America 13-15-17-19-21-23. Upshifts are fast and crisp, but downshifts are occasionally slow, and I can sometimes (fortunately, rarely) skate the chain over the tops of the teeth on the 19T or 17T cog. I have an otherwise comparable standard 6-speed 14-16-18-20-23-26 SunTour Winner unit on the Bianchi, with the same chain and also with a Campagnolo parallelogram rear derailleur, and I greatly prefer the SunTour.
Chains: I use SRAM PC-58 exclusively and have a stash of spares and no plans to change.
Hubsets: A look at the cones and races of my 1960 Campagnolo NR units is enough to make anyone a believer -- Campagnolo bearing surfaces are accurately machined and extremely durable. The first owner had neglected maintenance in a way which would have damaged Normandy hubs severely, but these Campagnolo hubs have cleaned up beautifully, and the axles spin smoothly and easily with new ball bearings on the old cones and races.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#23
Full Member
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,768
Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
8 Posts
I have to admit, when I started riding back in the early 70s, Campagnolo was what we aspired to obtain. Once I acquired it, I never looked back. I build a few bikes with Japanese components back in the day, including the original Suntour Cyclone rear (without the black paint BTW), and although it worked fine, it just wasn't the same. But I think its just what you get used to, or what your mind tells you to believe, or maybe I'm just a snob. The Japanese stuff is really nice, it just never interested me, and French stuff even less.