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  1. #1
    Senior Member BizzaroSteve's Avatar
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    Shimano 600 Cranks and Sugino BB... mismatched tapers?

    Hi there,

    I'm currently worrying about a miss matched BB Taper with a set of Shimano 600 Arabesque Cranks and a Sugino BB. Are they both ISO? JIS? a mismatch?

    I know it's not the end of the world if the tapers don't match but I would like to know in case I want to move these parts around. Also I'll be riding this bike through the winter so I'm going to be repacking the BB fairly frequently.

    Here's the Pics:

    Cranks:


    BB:

    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2347/...4bb47c75_b.jpg (Larger view)

    I can provide more info and pics if needed. Oh and the BB came with a Kabuki Track bike i picked up but I don't know if it is original to the frame.
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  2. #2
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    chances are the BB is ISO yes... most suginos are I think. Don't quote me. But the mighty series of cranks all used ISO...
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  3. #3
    JRA...
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    yes, but JIS. doesn't mean spindle is long enough (cranks probably take ~113).

  4. #4
    Stop reading my posts! unworthy1's Avatar
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    +1 to cyclotoine's comments: the Shimano cranks definitely want a JIS taper (or rather *size* of tapered end) spindle, and the early Suginos (which this *may* be) are ISO sized taper ends. A quick caliper check comparing a known JIS spindle end to your Sugino will tell all. And of course you want the right length for your frame, too.

  5. #5
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    It didn't click for me that you haven't likely mounted these cranks yet... I am assuming you will be using them with a single ring. If mounting the ring on the outside you will want the cranks to be moved in, relative to the original spec. You may also have to grind the tabs off so they don't strike the chainstay... if you want to use these later as a double then you should probably mount the ring on the inside (no it doesn't look as nice, but...). I suspect that the BB in there will be too short. I believe that those cranks would have taken a 116mm spindle originally... now shimano only makes 115mm BB so I would try a cartridge BB with the chainring on the inside for good chainline. This is without actually measuring the chainline of the bike, so I really am guessing.

    JIS cranks sit farther in on ISO spindles so this combination (assuming it's a track spindle) will definitely not work. You will almost certainly need a longer spindle.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

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    Senior Member BizzaroSteve's Avatar
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    Good to know that the cranks are JIS. According to Sheldon only sugino's NJS BBs are ISO so I think i'm in the clear. I tried mounting them and it seems like a match. I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't end up with a useless pair of cranks down the road.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BizzaroSteve View Post
    Good to know that the cranks are JIS. According to Sheldon only sugino's NJS BBs are ISO so I think i'm in the clear. I tried mounting them and it seems like a match. I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't end up with a useless pair of cranks down the road.
    Could you point out where sheldon says ONLY sugino NJS BBs are ISO? In any case as stated above, the mighty series of cranks mighty competition, super mighty etc.. used ISO tapers.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

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    Senior Member BizzaroSteve's Avatar
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    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust,
    sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."
    - Douglas Adams -


  9. #9
    Senior Member BizzaroSteve's Avatar
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    hmm... The original ad for the kabuki on sheldon's site stated it came with sugino mighty comps so if it is the original bb then it seems it would most likely be an ISO taper.



    Isn't the best quality but you can see "mighty comp" crankset under components for the bottom bike (the DTF).
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  10. #10
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    hmm he does say it:
    list sugino as JIS except NJS models... well I'll have to politely disagree with Sheldon (this might be a first). But the old suginos I have come across (might competition, super mighty) were ISO taper. In fact I am currently running a set of 1973 mighty competitions on a campy BB on my fixed gear.

    Edit: well I am curious now, You say the cranks fit well? They don't slide on too far when you install them and crank them down? you should check as described above.

    Edit: Looking at velobase, confirms ISO for mighty competition cranks, but I am perhaps wrong about super mighties which came later and according to velobase are JIS.
    Last edited by cyclotoine; 11-19-07 at 06:55 PM.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  11. #11
    Senior Member BizzaroSteve's Avatar
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    I'm leaning towards the BB being ISO as well. I had a set of the sugino might comps on a bike that was stolen matched up to an ISO spindle.
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust,
    sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."
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  12. #12
    Stop reading my posts! unworthy1's Avatar
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    I think Sheldon has just missed a bit in the details: AFAIK the Sugino "Mighty" cranks were an exact copy of the Campy Nuovo Record, and that included the ISO taper of the Campy NR spindle. If your Sugino Mighty crank had a 144 BCD, I bet it has an ISO taper spindle...seeing as you don't have the crank, only the BB, I'd just measure it or hold a JIS spindle end-to-end against it and compare.

  13. #13
    Senior Member BizzaroSteve's Avatar
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    Good Idea. I'll swing by the LBS with the spindle to check it out.
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust,
    sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."
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  14. #14
    Senior Member BizzaroSteve's Avatar
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    Also the mechanic at my lbs was saying that older shimano is ISO as well since some of their components predate the JIS standard? Any truth to this one?
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust,
    sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."
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  15. #15
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BizzaroSteve View Post
    Also the mechanic at my lbs was saying that older shimano is ISO as well since some of their components predate the JIS standard? Any truth to this one?
    Never heard that before. I thought Shimano's spindle just became JIS.

    I also think that most of the members of this forum know more about this stuff than bike shop mechanics. That is my experience anyway. I am a mechanic myself.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  16. #16
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    It's a nice crank. I have one that I stripped and polished and it's beautiful. It seems like an odd choice for a track frame, though.

  17. #17
    Senior Member BizzaroSteve's Avatar
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    Final word is that the BB was in fact ISO taper. Switched out for a new JIS sugino BB and the chainline stayed fine so I'm happy.

    As for the cranks on a track frame I like the aesthetic of the older cranks and didn't want to spend a lot of time or money looking for something that was a "track" crank so I just went with the 600s since I heard good things.
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust,
    sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."
    - Douglas Adams -


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