Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-19-07, 04:36 PM   #1
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
Thread Starter
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Bikes:
Posts: 6,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Campagnolo Syncro shifters: yeah or nay?

Quoth Sheldon Brown: "Synchro derailers and shift levers are incompatible with anything else, and the Synchro system worked so poorly that it is not a good idea to try to set the system up on a bike you intend to actually ride." *

Agree? Disagree? If agreed, is the Syncro II version any better? And is there a way to identify the revised version, if there is any real difference in performance?

I'm considering a set of the 8 speed Syncros for a build, using a 7 speed Shimano cassette (because apparently, Campagnolo 8 and Shimano 7 have the same cog spacing).

EDIT: They would be mated to what I believe is an 8 speed "Racing T" rear dérailleur. Not sure if this dérailleur is pre-ergo or not.

Last edited by JunkYardBike; 11-22-07 at 11:06 AM.
JunkYardBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-07, 04:43 PM   #2
el twe
crotchety young dude
 
el twe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SF, CA
Bikes: IRO Angus; Casati Gold Line; Redline 925; '72 Schwinn Olympic Paramount
Posts: 4,818
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ViperZ and 55/Rad are both successfully running some form of Synchro shifters, and I believe a few over here are as well. There's some mod you can do the shifter to help it out.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by CardiacKid View Post
I explained that he could never pay me enough cash for the amount of work I had put into that bike and the only way to compensate me for it was to ride the hell out of it.
IRO Angus Casati Gold Line
el twe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-07, 05:07 PM   #3
cyclotoine
Senior Member
 
cyclotoine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yukon, Canada
Bikes:
Posts: 8,609
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
I am running syncro on one bike, it works reasonably well and you think if a retro grouch ever wanted to run indexing they would use syncro for it's nice defined "chunk" as it shifts. Apparently if you smooth out the teeth in the insert a little it will improve shifting (according to out resident expert avenan). Now the combinations of syncro are mind boggling.

try this:
http://www.tuttocampybici.com/catalogs/syncro_1987.pdf

there are more catalogues at that sight which can be used to figure out what insert you need for what freewheel and dérailleur you have.

However, now that I think of it you might not even have Syncro, I am not sure the syncro system came in 8 speed.

Edit: are they the curved shifters with the built in adjuster as can be seen here:
http://www.tuttocampybici.com/catalogs/1992.pdf? If so these are a whole different ball game.
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
cyclotoine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-07, 05:24 PM   #4
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
Thread Starter
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Bikes:
Posts: 6,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
However, now that I think of it you might not even have Syncro, I am not sure the syncro system came in 8 speed.
Don't have a set, just been watching them on ebay. They come up fairly regularly, including this set, and most I've seen have been labeled 8 speed.

They appear to have blue inserts, which would appear to make them 7 speed according to catalogue you linked to?

I think that nightmare of a chart says it all!
JunkYardBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-07, 05:33 PM   #5
cyclotoine
Senior Member
 
cyclotoine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yukon, Canada
Bikes:
Posts: 8,609
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
I could be wrong about the 8 speed. That is the 1987 chart afterall, no knowing where my catalogue CD is is really starting to upset me! But those do look like syncro shifters as they have the knurled knob part to switch from friction to indexed. I have a set of later shifters with a 7 speed insert, never really investigated but I got it with a regina syncro-90 freewheel (7s) and 1st gen. mirage derailleur. I put it together and it worked like absolute crap. But the 6 speed set-up on my girlfriend's bike which is all chorus with maillard 700 freewheel works great, of course it is matched properly as per the chart.
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
cyclotoine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-07, 06:17 PM   #6
satbuilder 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southern Maryland
Bikes: 1973 Bianchi Team, 1974 Marnati Corsa, 1974 ish Motobecane CT, 1971 Mercier 300, 1977/78 Colnago Mexico, 1982 Pinarello Italia, 198? Raleigh Team 753, NOS Tesch 101, Tesch S-22, 1983 Peugeot Mixte
Posts: 782
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Not sure of the vintage you're talking about, but I built up a Tesch 101 back in 1988 with C record/deltas and synchro II shifters.

I personally thought they were junk and would have been happier with friction shifters, but I'm 50 yrs old and your mileage may vary.
satbuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-07, 09:13 PM   #7
luker
juneeaa memba!
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: boogled up in...Idaho!
Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...
Posts: 5,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
they are a challenge, to say the least. You'll never get them shifting perfectly, but if you work at it you can get reasonably close. And just think of the adventure...you never know if the next shift is gonna complete gracefully. The only thing that I can guarantee is that if there's a babe anywhere within earshot, you're gonna grind a pound of gears with as much noise as a bike can make...

you need a bike set up with these shifters, if for no other reason than to remember how good modern shifters work. If you set up a nuovo or a super record, you also need the adjuster barrel that allows you to fine tune the cable tension. That piece was actually part of the upgrade kit to synchro...if you buy a NOS set make sure that the little adjuster barrel is in there.
luker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-07, 10:08 PM   #8
rcevans
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Bikes: 1987 Schwinn Peloton
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I built up a time trial bike in '91 with Campy Athena Syncro II 7 speed on the downtube and it worked fine though i heard there were problems with the original Syncro. When I was looking to update the bike and move the shifters to the aero bars I took someone's advice from this forum and used Olympus shifters and suprisingly they worked just fine both indexing and friction. Not bad at all for Campy's lower end stuff.
rcevans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-07, 10:56 PM   #9
Wino Ryder
"Purgatory Central"
 
Wino Ryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: beautiful "Cypress Gardens" florida
Bikes:
Posts: 1,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
These here are NOS campy Record 'Syncro 2' 8-speed DT shifters from 1992. They are index only and shift just fine on my 8-speed Record cassette. So far I havent had any problems with them, which doesn't mean problems do not exist with others. FWIW I've heard changing to a 'floating' top jockey pulley on the RR derailleur helped indexing on the Syncro shifters that did have problems.


Wino Ryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-07, 11:18 PM   #10
55/Rad
Senior Member
 
55/Rad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Seven Axiom
Posts: 11,696
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
My C-Record system is set up with friction, not synchros, so I can't help.

That said. I would like to know if there is a 10 speed indexed DT shifter that will work with Campy - Centaur to be specific. The only one I know of is the DA....and I don't know if it'll work.

55/Rad
__________________
55/Rad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 06:26 AM   #11
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
Thread Starter
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Bikes:
Posts: 6,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 55/Rad View Post
I would like to know if there is a 10 speed indexed DT shifter that will work with Campy - Centaur to be specific.
You probably already know about the Record 10 speed barends. Branford's page mentions a conversion kit, but the link doesn't seem to be working. These would end up being the most expensive DT shifters ever, though I'm sure the main units could be had more affordably on ebay.

http://www.branfordbike.com/brake/brk03.html
JunkYardBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 06:50 AM   #12
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
Thread Starter
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Bikes:
Posts: 6,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wino Ryder View Post
These here are NOS campy Record 'Syncro 2' 8-speed DT shifters from 1992.
I've considered the version with the cable adjuster as well. So these came in a box labeled "Synchro II"? The 1992 catalogue available on TuttoCampyBici.com doesn't make mention of the 'Synchro' trademark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luker View Post
And just think of the adventure...you never know if the next shift is gonna complete gracefully. The only thing that I can guarantee is that if there's a babe anywhere within earshot, you're gonna grind a pound of gears with as much noise as a bike can make...
So is that what Wino Ryder has, or is his a different animal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by luker View Post
And just think of the adventure...you never know if the next shift is gonna complete gracefully.
I think I'll leave the adventure for another day, luker. I was hoping for a budget alternative to ergos, but it looks as if a project like this could end up costing more in the long run. It'll have to be friction for the time being. What a foolish thought: Campy on a budget!
JunkYardBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 08:37 AM   #13
luker
juneeaa memba!
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: boogled up in...Idaho!
Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...
Posts: 5,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
you're right - campy on a budget is kind of an oxymoron...my comments above refer to the original, period-correct, 80's version of campy's index shifting. They are not good, so unless you are building a period correct piece, I can't recommend 'em. Campy never really believed in the need; the top drawer C-Record stuff came non-indexing for quite a while.

this thread isn't quite C&V; more like retrogrouches in review, but I happen to like downtube shifters, and I like the thought of all of those cogs in the back. The 8 speed downtube shifters from the '90's work great, like Wino Ryder's setup. The 9 speeds are even better. I have finally found a rear 10speed campy derailleur that I could afford, and so maybe soon I'll be able to say that 10speeds work as well as 9.

Back to your original post - racing triple rear derailleurs are indexing (only, I think... although you can make just about anything work in friction mode...). There are several 8-speed options for campy downtube shifters. I have a bike running a Sachs 8-speed freewheel and campy 8-speed synchro. Works great. Any of the campy 8-speed cassettes will also work.

While we are exploring all of the options: has anyone tried to make a campy 10 setup shift over a shimano 10 cassette, or the other way around? It seems to me that there just isn't enough room left with 10 cogs for the manufacturers to be building in uniqueness...
luker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 09:46 AM   #14
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
Thread Starter
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Bikes:
Posts: 6,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by luker View Post
Back to your original post - racing triple rear derailleurs are indexing (only, I think... although you can make just about anything work in friction mode...). There are several 8-speed options for campy downtube shifters. I have a bike running a Sachs 8-speed freewheel and campy 8-speed synchro. Works great. Any of the campy 8-speed cassettes will also work.

While we are exploring all of the options: has anyone tried to make a campy 10 setup shift over a shimano 10 cassette, or the other way around? It seems to me that there just isn't enough room left with 10 cogs for the manufacturers to be building in uniqueness...
Problem is, I have a Shimano wheelset, so I was hoping to mate the 8 speed indexed Campy levers to a 7 speed Shimano cassette, as per this website: http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946

It appears, according to the chart on the website, that you can run a Shimano 10 cassette with a pre-2001 Campy indexing rear derailleur.
JunkYardBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 09:57 AM   #15
cs1
Senior Member
 
cs1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clev Oh
Bikes: Specialized, Schwinn
Posts: 6,705
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 55/Rad View Post
My C-Record system is set up with friction, not synchros, so I can't help.

That said. I would like to know if there is a 10 speed indexed DT shifter that will work with Campy - Centaur to be specific. The only one I know of is the DA....and I don't know if it'll work.

55/Rad
The Synchro 2 shifter pictured above uses the Ergo gear from a barcon. So, 10 is possible

Tim
cs1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 11:18 AM   #16
Wino Ryder
"Purgatory Central"
 
Wino Ryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: beautiful "Cypress Gardens" florida
Bikes:
Posts: 1,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This site seems to have pretty good discussions on everything 7/8-speed. May clear up some issues involving Syncro DT shifters.
http://campyonly.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=2

That said, here's another shot of my 'Syncro 2' shifters so everyone can see how gorgeous they look. (sorry if its a shameless plug, but I cant help it. .......they even work good.




Wino Ryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 12:21 PM   #17
cyclotoine
Senior Member
 
cyclotoine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Yukon, Canada
Bikes:
Posts: 8,609
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Wino rider, you're usuing a post c-record, record derailleur with those?

Junk Yard, if campy 8 and shimano 7 have the same spacing then so whould shimano 8 as you can use 8 speed shimano shifters with 7 speed cassettes/freewheels no problem because the spacing is the same.
__________________
1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear
cyclotoine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 12:52 PM   #18
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
Thread Starter
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Bikes:
Posts: 6,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
Wino rider, you're usuing a post c-record, record derailleur with those?

Junk Yard, if campy 8 and shimano 7 have the same spacing then so whould shimano 8 as you can use 8 speed shimano shifters with 7 speed cassettes/freewheels no problem because the spacing is the same.
Are you sure? Shimano 7 is 5mm, Campy 8 is 5mm, Shimano 8 is 4.8mm. Not saying it wouldn't work. I'm planning on using what I think is an 8 speed 'Racing T' rear derailleur, so unless I fiddle with cable positioning, I'm under the impression Shimano shifters won't work due to a different actuation ratio.

Wino Ryder, thanks for the link to the CampyOnly board. Need more time to search. The ShimaNO forum is worth a few laughs.
JunkYardBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 07:55 PM   #19
luker
juneeaa memba!
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: boogled up in...Idaho!
Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...
Posts: 5,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
don't forget us. We need to know the results of your research. ummmm. pizza. All of the kids have left and there's pizza. Not supposed to eat pizza, don't tell...
luker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 07:59 PM   #20
dbakl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Bikes: Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
Posts: 5,775
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I have a set of levers here, never used them...
dbakl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 09:05 PM   #21
Wino Ryder
"Purgatory Central"
 
Wino Ryder's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: beautiful "Cypress Gardens" florida
Bikes:
Posts: 1,757
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
Wino rider, you're usuing a post c-record, record derailleur with those?QUOTE]

Believe it or not, this is all part of my campy conversion on my Tommasini, which came with Shimano '600'.

So far I have converted everything over, but am still using the '600' 8-speed STI rear derailleur. The DT syncro shifters work just fine with that derailleur, shifting onto an 8-speed Record cassette. Believe me, I was expecting trouble with this set-up but it worked great. I dont know. Maybe its because the top pulley on the STI '600' derailleur is more free floating, allowing everything to index correctly.
Wino Ryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 09:07 PM   #22
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
Thread Starter
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Bikes:
Posts: 6,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by luker View Post
don't forget us. We need to know the results of your research. ummmm. pizza. All of the kids have left and there's pizza. Not supposed to eat pizza, don't tell...
The results of my research: eye fatigue and hunger...any pizza left?

Syncros were awful, apparently.

Again, Wino Ryder, are you sure those are 'Syncros'? From the catalogues available online (TuttoCampyBici.com and CampyOnly.com), it appears the version with the cable adjuster on the lever was first introduced in '92 (your set), but they had dropped the 'Syncro' moniker by then. In the catalogue, this text appears: "precision indexed shifting (no over-shift)." I'm thinking this is the year they fixed the problems with the Syncros.
JunkYardBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 09:08 PM   #23
JunkYardBike
Since 1938...
Thread Starter
 
JunkYardBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Northwestern NJ
Bikes:
Posts: 6,208
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbakl View Post
I have a set of levers here, never used them...
PM sent.

Last edited by JunkYardBike; 11-20-07 at 09:41 PM.
JunkYardBike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 09:55 PM   #24
luker
juneeaa memba!
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: boogled up in...Idaho!
Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...
Posts: 5,629
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
nah. twice. Wino has the later version. I have no pizza left. The big kids blew through looking for their D&D books and magically, all of the freakin' pizza disappeared. I am not supposed to indulge. I am not supposed to indulge. that was a good thing, I think...
luker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-07, 11:28 PM   #25
J T CUNNINGHAM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: TORONTO , ONT , CA
Bikes: '86 AMBROSI / C RECORD. PINARELLO MONTELLO / FRAME, FORK.
Posts: 813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
DOMINO'S PERSONAL PIZZA:

Bacon, onions, tomatoes, pepperoni, ground beef, extra cheese, 2x hot peppers. & garlic dip.

c/w can of Coke.

$ 7.85 Cdn


Regards,
J T
J T CUNNINGHAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:57 PM.