Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-21-07, 05:09 PM   #1
Lew Decker
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Bikes: '83 Picchio road bike, '94 Specialized Stumpjumper mountain bike
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Baby blue Torelli...

Well...I don't exactly know how to put this. I might be stupid and naive - I'll let you decide.

On the local CL there was an 80's vintage Torelli in good shape offered at $175. It had Campy derailleurs, shifters and hubs, Gipiemme brakes, and an Ofmega crankset nicely pantographed with the Torelli "T". Even the stem was engraved with the Torelli logo. I looked at the pics and decided the bike was worth far more than the asking price and so I started to email the guy for his address. I wanted the bike for my daughter, but - and here is the rub - I thought a bike like that might fetch as much as $1,000 on eBay. The seller had no clue what he had. I could have bought the bike from the guy, but I began to question whether I could live with myself after basically ripping the seller off.

My Kharma stinks - big time, these days - and so I erased the email I had written and started over. I hate to tell you this, but I told the guy he had a little gold mine instead of a beater bike and that he would do far better selling it on eBay. To make a long story even longer, about a half-hour later I saw the same Torelli listed on eBay for a buy-it-now price of $499 - still a great bargain. Needless to say, it sold the first day.

This morning I received an email from the seller thanking me for what I had done. He was selling the bike for a friend and really didn't have any idea of the Torelli's worth. I think his eBay price was far too low, but at least he nearly tripled his original $175.

Am I stupid? Naive? Should I have bought the bike and run off into the thules giddy with my purchase?

Hmmmm.

Anyway, I guess I'm still looking for a bike for my daughter. The Torelli was probably too small for her - I think she needs a 55 or so, but still...Vintage Torelli??? I would have made her ride it, I think, and who cares whether it fit? Dang.

So...Here we sit today, no Torelli in the garage. I suppose that's what I get for being broke. Maybe I should lower my sights and settle for a real beater. Never mind...

Thanks for letting me exhale.

Last edited by Lew Decker; 11-21-07 at 05:46 PM.
Lew Decker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 05:41 PM   #2
Otis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,622
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
I honestly do not see what you did as a positive. If you could have made good use of the bike then I think it was totally misguided. The seller priced it. With today's internet access it was just laziness on his part to to not rersearch it a bit and ask a more appropriate amount. If you felt bad you should have bought it and kicked in a tip. I've done that at yard sales where people shorted themselves a ridiculous amount on something. But there's no "karma" deposit comin' to you on this one. You benefited the seller but you screwed some guy out of a bargain road bike off the CL. Now start minding your own business.
Otis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 05:44 PM   #3
JohnnyBee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 308
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think you did a wonderful thing. Not many would have done that. In
todays World where the Mantra seems to be underhandedness
and/or deception, what you did is a breath of fresh air for Humanity.
Oh sure, one can get caught up in the treasure hunt, and brag about
stealing a bike through some sort of deception or otherwise, but in the
end, you are the one that has to live with yourself. You did the right
thing and should be proud of your kind, and gracious act. I'm sure
you will sleep well.

We cannot take anything with us, so why trade our Soul for a monitary
gain. After all, it's just a bicycle not the Holy Grail.



JohnyBee.
JohnnyBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 05:47 PM   #4
JohnnyBee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 308
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh yeah Lew, you scored big time good Kharma






JohnnyBee.
JohnnyBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 05:50 PM   #5
J T CUNNINGHAM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: TORONTO , ONT , CA
Bikes: '86 AMBROSI / C RECORD. PINARELLO MONTELLO / FRAME, FORK.
Posts: 813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you have to ask . . .

Regards, J T
J T CUNNINGHAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 06:19 PM   #6
jet sanchEz
Senior Member
 
jet sanchEz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 8,146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Tough call, I was in a similar situation last year when a nice Bianchi came up on CL for $75. I bought it and gave it to my friend and he rides it all the time and has even quit smoking as a result of his new-found joy for cycling.

I could have flipped the Bianchi for a fair bit more but I think, karmically, I did the right thing. However, if he ever decides to upgrade, I will happily offer him $75 for it
jet sanchEz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 07:36 PM   #7
caterham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
what you did was pretty classy in my book. too bad the seller didn't kick you a portion of the sale for your generous advice - still, a thanks is better than a snub...

anywhoo.... the way I see it is that regardless of the "deal", this one just wasn't the right bike or the right time...
caterham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 08:38 PM   #8
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Bikes:
Posts: 8,744
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
I have also informed sellers of the potential value of their bikes, you are not alone in your actions. If you did nothing, he probably would have had many people inquiring about the bike and would have clued in that the bike is worth more than he posted. Then, everyone here would have gotton their panties in a bunch when he raised the price. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
iab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 08:52 PM   #9
moki
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
on the intenret their are google searches that tell you how much things cost so if the seller wanted to know how much the bike was supposed to worth he could have just searched.

if you really wanted good karma, you could've bought the bike for 175$, sold it on ebay, and sent the difference to save the charity to prevent gay communist baby seals from being clubbed.
moki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 09:30 PM   #10
redtires
Extra Medium Member
 
redtires's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Louisville, Co
Bikes: Arcalis Andorra 01 custom build, Specialized Stumpy
Posts: 1,824
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBee View Post
I think you did a wonderful thing. Not many would have done that. In
todays World where the Mantra seems to be underhandedness
and/or deception, what you did is a breath of fresh air for Humanity.
Oh sure, one can get caught up in the treasure hunt, and brag about
stealing a bike through some sort of deception or otherwise, but in the
end, you are the one that has to live with yourself. You did the right
thing and should be proud of your kind, and gracious act. I'm sure
you will sleep well.

We cannot take anything with us, so why trade our Soul for a monitary
gain. After all, it's just a bicycle not the Holy Grail.



JohnyBee.
+infinity. Good work!
redtires is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 09:32 PM   #11
iab
Senior Member
 
iab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Bikes:
Posts: 8,744
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by moki View Post
on the intenret their are google searches that tell you how much things cost so if the seller wanted to know how much the bike was supposed to worth he could have just searched.

if you really wanted good karma, you could've bought the bike for 175$, sold it on ebay, and sent the difference to save the charity to prevent gay communist baby seals from being clubbed.
Incorrect.

A Google search on "Torelli cost" or "Torelli value" get you nothing, nada, bupkis. And only sometimes an ebay search will work, they only go back 30 days, the model in question may or may not be there. Then there are questions about the exact components and their condition, it's not as easy as you claim. As for your last statement, that's just embarassing.
iab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 10:20 PM   #12
dashngracie
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Blue T....

You must be kidding --- to question a matter of personal integrity? I could not give you higher praise,marks etc. Never question what is truly "right". Made my day to read your post and decision.
dashngracie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-07, 11:18 PM   #13
WNG
Spin Forest! Spin!
 
WNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Arrid Zone-a
Bikes: I used to have many. And I Will again.
Posts: 5,967
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hmmm, sounds like kharma's remorse.
:\
WNG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-07, 12:29 AM   #14
moki
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,153
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by iab View Post
Incorrect.

A Google search on "Torelli cost" or "Torelli value" get you nothing, nada, bupkis. And only sometimes an ebay search will work, they only go back 30 days, the model in question may or may not be there. Then there are questions about the exact components and their condition, it's not as easy as you claim. As for your last statement, that's just embarassing.
The first hit on a search for "torelli bicycles", will, however, take you to the Torelli website, where prices of new frames are listed.

As for my last comment, which you obviously did not find amusing in the least, I simply meant that by pointing out a seller's naivete, causing him to pull the offer, ebay the bike, and net himself a few hundred extra bucks, the OP is not exactly saving the world. Of course it's ridiculous to think that anybody on these boards is going to give up a minty Torelli score, sell it on the open market, and donate it to charity. But no more ridiculous than believing that good kharma [sic] can be gotten by helping a lazy seller maximize his profit.
moki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-07, 01:13 PM   #15
Lew Decker
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Diego, CA
Bikes: '83 Picchio road bike, '94 Specialized Stumpjumper mountain bike
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow - I don't post much around here and it shows. I had no idea I would get flamed for a simple act of honesty. Maybe I could have stated my case a little more clearly. I sure as hell wasn't trying to score Kharma points. I was trying to score some Kharma points for a guy who was only helping his girlfriend sell her bike. If that's a rotten thing to do, sue me.

Was the guy lazy? Maybe, but I think it's more a case of someone operating out of simple ignorance. I would not have been happy taking the bike from the guy. Yes, I could have offered more, but there is a question of economics here. If I could afford a more expensive bike for my daughter, I wouldn't be scrounging CL. Offering him what the bike is really worth was out of the question.

Thanks to the rest of you who had some very nice things to say. You can tell from the OP that I did have some remorse.

You can't count the number of threads on the BF where someone "scored" the deal of the century. In most of those cases I'm sure the seller was happy just to get rid of the eyesore they had in the garage. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with those who brag about taking advantage of an unwary seller.

I think I learned a couple of things from this little episode. I am a lot more reluctant to post anything here. Like the first guy said, I guess I'll go mind my own business. The other is, you can bet your bottom dollar that if I run across a "score", I will let the seller know exactly what he/she has before I plunk down any money. I still don't believe in ripping people off, regardless of their laziness, ignorance, or just plain stupidity. I don't think I'm wrong.

Anyway, on a more positive note, I'd like to wish all of you out there the very best of Thanksgiving Days. It really is a time for family and friends. I'll be with mine. I hope you are surrounded with yours. Good cheer.
Lew Decker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-07, 01:26 PM   #16
luker
juneeaa memba!
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: boogled up in...Idaho!
Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...
Posts: 5,628
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
well, for what it is worth, suffering can be stressing over a good deed well done. Remorse = suffering. you did a good thing...we all should, and most do. Go do some more and I'll bet it'll all work out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moki View Post
if you really wanted good karma, you could've bought the bike for 175$, sold it on ebay, and sent the difference to save the charity to prevent gay communist baby seals from being clubbed.

Gay communist baby seals?
luker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-07, 06:42 AM   #17
JohnnyBee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 308
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thanks Lew. I hope you, and all the Members here had a good Thanksgiving
as well

In my heart, I feel that if Man devoted as much energy in being kind,
thoughtful and compassionate to others as he does being cruel, greedy,
and manipulative, the World would be a great place to live.

Yeah I know, I'm a bit of a Tree Hugger and I admire Ghandi.






Cheers,
JohnnyBee.
JohnnyBee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-07, 07:26 AM   #18
Sammyboy
The Legitimiser
 
Sammyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Southampton, UK
Bikes: Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
Posts: 4,847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm astonished at some of the responses on here. Lew, you did the right thing. I've done the same thing a couple of times, and still done well out of it. I bought a bike on eBay - it was reasonably well listed, but the photo was small. I watch a lot of bikes like that, and maybe 1 in 50 goes cheap, and this one did. It was a nice Freddie Grubb. Whilst I was there, they guy pulled an ancient set of Campagnolo tubular wheels out, caked in grease, and asked if I knew what they were. I told him they were for tubulars, and he said did I want them? I could've offered him 10, and taken them away, but I told him I'd do some research.

Turned out they were early two piece Gran Sport hubs, with Fiamme Red Label rims. I told him that it looked like they were pretty decent, and if he cleaned them up, he might get 80-100 or more on eBay. I told him I'd like them, but I'm going to sell them on, so I wouldn't pay the full whack. I told him I'd give him 50 if he wanted to sell them, which would save him all the cleaning and listing. He was happy with that, I sold the wheels on for a decent profit.

The net result was, he got 40 more, and I spent 40 more, than it might have been. He might have got more yet, but it was at least his choice, with proper knowledge. I made some money, and I got to feel good about it. And, he then called me again when he had found a box of old saddles and bits, offered those to me. I had a look, but only found one saddle I wanted, and offered him a tenner for it (a Wrights leather one). He said sure, but said to just take the whole box. I did, and when I went through it, I found two Coloral aluminium water bottles, which between them fetched about 60 on eBay. Sometimes, being nice really does produce nice results.
Sammyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:44 PM.