Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-27-07, 09:27 PM   #1
Kommisar89
Bottecchia fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Bikes: 1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (in progress...), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special (in progress...), 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame), 1974 Peugeot UO-8
Posts: 3,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Help me date this Bottecchia on eBay please...

Help me date this Bottecchia on eBay folks - http://cgi.ebay.com/BOTTECCHIA-ROAD-...QQcmdZViewItem

The seller says 80's - I'm guessing 79-81 based on the components. Campy catalog 17a Supplement (1979) is the first to show the 5-arm Gran Sport crank and the "Olympic" Catalog (1982) shows the cone shaped fasteners on the Gran Sport shifters while this bike has D-rings which are shown in the 1979 catalog. Can any Campy experts out there confirm or deny that? This might be the "missing link" late 70's to early 80's bike I've been expecting to find out there.

__________________
1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional, 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
Kommisar89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-07, 09:47 PM   #2
Otis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,663
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
I'd say '83 or earlier just going by single bottle cage and clamp-on front der.

Interesting brake cable routing. The only other bike I've seen with 3 loops under the tt was my '82 Medici Pro Strada (and that was the only Medici I've seen built that way.
Otis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-07, 06:05 AM   #3
satbuilder 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southern Maryland
Bikes: 1973 Bianchi Team, 1974 Marnati Corsa, 1974 ish Motobecane CT, 1971 Mercier 300, 1977/78 Colnago Mexico, 1982 Pinarello Italia, 198? Raleigh Team 753, NOS Tesch 101, Tesch S-22, 1983 Peugeot Mixte
Posts: 786
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
I have a 1982 Pinarello with the identical drivetrain.
satbuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-07, 06:23 AM   #4
Picchio Special
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster County, PA
Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis
Posts: 5,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis View Post
I'd say '83 or earlier just going by single bottle cage and clamp-on front der.

Interesting brake cable routing. The only other bike I've seen with 3 loops under the tt was my '82 Medici Pro Strada (and that was the only Medici I've seen built that way.
While not disagreeing with the year guess, I would point out that clamp-on front derailleurs tended to persist longer (definitely post-83 in many cases) on the mid-range and lower models than on the top-tier frames. (Same seems to be true to some extent of the downtube set of bottle braze-ons).
Remember, more braze-ons generally mean more expense, and they are one way, along with tubing type, to make distinctions between various price-points during a period when models were really starting to proliferate up and down the product range for more ambitious makers. A few lower models in the mid 80's even retained the cable clips and lacked the TT cable guide braze-ons.
On that particular bike, the over-the-BB cable routing does say earlier rather than later to me.

Last edited by Picchio Special; 11-28-07 at 06:45 AM.
Picchio Special is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-07, 07:54 AM   #5
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 12,468
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 372 Post(s)
Since I'm still on sabbatical, I can't state dates with 100% certainty, but it has Portacatena dropouts which make it no older than 1979(?). The seat tube decal mentions the 1966 World Championship victory, but not the 1985, so 1985 is the most modern it can be.

The component mix is a bit confusing. Nuovo Gran Sport was replaced by Triomphe and Victory in 1985 (?) but it has Campagnolo rims which I though were introduced in 1985 too (?). So, either Bottechia was clearing some old Nuovo Gran Sport or we have some non-original equipment. Circa 1985 would make sense with the full chrome stays and forks. However, the lack of any tubing decal is curious. The component group and frame fittings suggest at least a mid-range model, so if it was circa 1983-1985, I would have expected an Aelle, Matrix or equivalent decal, which it does not have. A mid-range model with no tubing decal suggest 1979-1982. Of course, tubing decals are notoriously fragile, but I don't even see signs of any remnants.

It's definitely circa 1979-1985, so it is a "missing link" model, but there is some conflicting evidence as to where exactly it fits within that period. Personally, I'm sitting on the fence but leaning slightly towards 1983-1985.
T-Mar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-07, 10:32 AM   #6
Kommisar89
Bottecchia fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Bikes: 1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (in progress...), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special (in progress...), 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame), 1974 Peugeot UO-8
Posts: 3,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have pictures of a couple of Gran Sport equipped 1984 Bottecchias. They both have Ofmega Mondial cranks, the cone shaped fasteners on the shift levers, the newer style decals and painted stays so I'm leaning toward pre-84 for this bike. The chrome rear triangle did show up later on the higher end bikes but not the low to mid-range models as far as I can tell. Especially unusual I find is the head badge which is the double row vertical 'BOTTECCHIA' instead of the Bottecchia bird (falcon, eagle, hawk, crazy chicken, whatever the heck it is ) I have another picture of a nearly identical bike in gray and a few of the Hoonved team bikes circa 80-82 and while the pictures are low res and grainy (and black and white) the color schemes look similar.
__________________
1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional, 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
Kommisar89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-07, 03:34 PM   #7
rmfnla
Senior Member
 
rmfnla's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: La La Land (We love it!)
Bikes: Gilmour road, Curtlo road; both steel (of course)
Posts: 6,254
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
I had a Bottecchia in 1972 and it had chrome lugs as well as stays.

Obviously components can be swapped out so judging soley on them could be misleading.

The holes in the right rear dropout are for that plastic chain hanger thingie that Campy offered for awhile; I seem to remember that coming out around 1980 (and not lasting very long!).
__________________
Today, I believe my jurisdiction ends here...
rmfnla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-07, 03:39 PM   #8
Kommisar89
Bottecchia fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Bikes: 1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (in progress...), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special (in progress...), 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame), 1974 Peugeot UO-8
Posts: 3,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmfnla View Post
I had a Bottecchia in 1972 and it had chrome lugs as well as seat stays.

Obviously components can be swapped out so judging soley on them could be misleading.

The holes in the right rear dropout are for that plastic chain hanger thingie that Campy offered for awhile; I seem to remember that coming out around 1980 (and not lasting very long!).
Yeah, I have 72 and it's clearing much later than that. Like you point out, components can be changed. And to make it worse, Campy only put out a catalog every few years. And of course a manufacturer could have stocked up on stuff and keep using it for a year or so after it was officially discontinued. But 1980 +- a year or so is my guess right now.
__________________
1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional, 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
Kommisar89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-07, 10:36 PM   #9
mrruins
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: San Francisco
Bikes: 66,67 or 68? Bottecchia w/ "Campione del Mondo 1966" decal
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
nice find. is it going to the collection?
mrruins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-07, 10:57 PM   #10
Kommisar89
Bottecchia fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Bikes: 1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (in progress...), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special (in progress...), 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame), 1974 Peugeot UO-8
Posts: 3,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrruins View Post
nice find. is it going to the collection?
Only my picture collection to help me create a Bottecchia timeline. I'm looking for a newer Bott with SLX frame and around 54-56cm C-C size.
__________________
1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional, 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
Kommisar89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-07, 11:03 PM   #11
Kommisar89
Bottecchia fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Bikes: 1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (in progress...), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special (in progress...), 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame), 1974 Peugeot UO-8
Posts: 3,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Now here's a 1982 Bott I found with the provenance to prove it (Google is a wonderful thing). Strong family resemblance although this is a much nicer model. If you look close you can make out the odd vertical double "BOTTECCHIA" head badge.

Detail from article: 1982 ridden by Didi Thurau of Team Hoonved, equipment: Campy Record / Super Record, rims Mavic GP-4. Newly rebuilt, 100% ready to ride

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...&tbnw=90&prev=

__________________
1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional, 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista

Last edited by Kommisar89; 11-28-07 at 11:19 PM.
Kommisar89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-07, 04:20 PM   #12
Kommisar89
Bottecchia fan
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Bikes: 1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional (in progress...), 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special (in progress...), 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame), 1974 Peugeot UO-8
Posts: 3,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I see somebody took the buy it now option and picked it up for $500. Seems a bit expensive but I don't know enough about that model to be sure (like what frame tubing that might be or the value of early 80's Campy GS components). I didn't particularly like the color myself. If it were something like that black and white one I posted last night I would snap it up in a heart beat.
__________________
1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional, 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista
Kommisar89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-07, 05:22 PM   #13
Picchio Special
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster County, PA
Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis
Posts: 5,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kommisar89 View Post
I see somebody took the buy it now option and picked it up for $500. Seems a bit expensive but I don't know enough about that model to be sure (like what frame tubing that might be or the value of early 80's Campy GS components). I didn't particularly like the color myself. If it were something like that black and white one I posted last night I would snap it up in a heart beat.
$500 is too much, IMO. Those GS components have minimal collector value. And if the bike had the GS parts, it's a good bet the frame by itself isn't anything really special.
In general, of course, Buy It Nows -- including those from that seller, from whom I've bought stuff before -- are set high, just in case someone gets an itchy trigger finger. Of course, there are those great BIN opportunities, but those generally get snapped up right quick, and don't linger as long as that bike did.
Picchio Special is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:01 PM.