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Old 11-30-07, 06:15 PM   #1
int19
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broken frame: eBay transaction advice

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for some advice on how to proceed. I recently purchased a Miyata Titanium frame on eBay. Kind of a quick trigger thing as I saw it nearly as soon as it was ending and I couldn't find any info about them on google, so I figure, looks/sounds awesome, I'll buy it. The seller didn't look like she knew what she was selling and had it poorly listed. So I pay big bucks to ship it here from Canada (300 total cost for the auction+shipping) and it just arrived today. Meanwhile I had finally tracked some info down on the internet and found out that these 'lugged titanium' frames had issues with the tubes coming out of the aluminum 'lugs'. Sure enough, upon unpacking it I noticed two joints where the tubes have come out. I called a local framebuilder for a rough estimate and it sounds like it would be ~200 to reglue the joints.

So I'm pretty sure the seller didn't know anything was wrong. I'm thinking of asking her to refund the cost of the auction, but not the shipping, effectively paying the shipping cost (about ~180) for the wheelset and all of the components. (8 speed shimano 600, which I can probably use or sell to recoup the cost) Sound like fair offer?

I'll post pics for fun and reference when I get this poor frame home...

Thanks all!
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Old 11-30-07, 06:32 PM   #2
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You want her to refund the cost of the auction but your going to strip it and keep all the components.

I'd negotiate and 'take what you can get'.
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Old 11-30-07, 06:47 PM   #3
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You want her to refund the cost of the auction but your going to strip it and keep all the components.

I'd negotiate and 'take what you can get'.
Hehe I know, but I'd feel guilty doing that . I'm fairly certain she didn't know the frame was broken.

She was really nice and even partially disassembled and packaged the frame in a smaller box to help get the shipping price down (her original box was UPS oversize) I'd rather not make her eat the cost of the auction _plus_ shipping, essentially losing $170.

I would rather just negotiate on the phone, but she speaks french. I suppose I could bribe my french friend to call her and see what happens...
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Old 11-30-07, 07:05 PM   #4
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So you didn't do an adequate job of researching the frame before, as you put it, being quick on the trigger, and you want her to shoulder the entire cost of your failure to do due diligence? I'd say that in theory, both parties have some responsibilty. As you say, you don't think she was trying to pull anything. If it were me, I'd be comfortable asking her to split the cost of having the repairs done. If you feel you got a stupendous deal had the frame not had "issues," I'd say you'd still have a pretty nice deal putting 100 or so into making it ready to ride.
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Old 11-30-07, 07:29 PM   #5
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- another eScamBay scam... pay the $200 and get the frame fixed, then never use eScamBay again...

- when will people learn?

(as an aside, i really doubt the long-term integrity of AL/CF, Ti/CF frames... much prefer mono-material)...
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Old 11-30-07, 08:09 PM   #6
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Great advice - that way I'll be able to buy all the cool bikes on eBay.

Are you kidding??? That's just nuts.

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- another eScamBay scam... pay the $200 and get the frame fixed, then never use eScamBay again...

- when will people learn?

(as an aside, i really doubt the long-term integrity of AL/CF, Ti/CF frames... much prefer mono-material)...
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Old 11-30-07, 08:12 PM   #7
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#1: Seller failed (obviously with no malice intended, as inferred from previous comments) to disclose that frame is damaged.

#2: Buyer failed to properly inquire as to these lugs, being ignorant of the apparently common failure problem until later.

#3: Both seller and buyer are at partial fault, however, the seller more so, for one cannot expect all buyers to be knowledgeable about the product quality ("It's a TI bike!").

#4: Have seller reimburse you a reasonable amount for the frame value, calculating said value in relation to the reduced value of the frame as being part of a complete bike, rather then a frameset.

#5: Call it a lesson learned.

-Kurt
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Old 11-30-07, 08:44 PM   #8
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#1: Seller failed (obviously with no malice intended, as inferred from previous comments) to disclose that frame is damaged.

#2: Buyer failed to properly inquire as to these lugs, being ignorant of the apparently common failure problem until later.

#3: Both seller and buyer are at partial fault, however, the seller more so, for one cannot expect all buyers to be knowledgeable about the product quality ("It's a TI bike!").

#4: Have seller reimburse you a reasonable amount for the frame value, calculating said value in relation to the reduced value of the frame as being part of a complete bike, rather then a frameset.

#5: Call it a lesson learned.
-Kurt
Ok, well my French friend agreed to speak with her for me. I think we'll reach a fair solution. (Assuming that she replies the message I sent her).

Funny that when I saw it, I figured the "risk", if there was any, would be that it wasn't titanium and that it would just be some nice steel tubeset , as my searching didn't even seem to find a Ti Miyata that looked anything like this one. Oh well

I suppose with Ti prices being what they be, worst case I take the frame to a savvy recycling place
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Old 11-30-07, 09:12 PM   #9
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Old 11-30-07, 09:25 PM   #10
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Ask her for 1/2 the cost of the repairs.
That is all she is really liable for.
Actually she is not really "liable" for anything.
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Old 11-30-07, 09:32 PM   #11
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I think you and the seller made a boo boo.
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Old 11-30-07, 10:25 PM   #12
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I think that you knew you had a pretty ignorant seller there. You just thought it would end up more in your favor.
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Old 12-01-07, 08:20 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by int19 View Post
... The seller didn't look like she knew what she was selling and had it poorly listed. So I pay big bucks to ship it here from Canada (300 total cost for the auction+shipping) and it just arrived today ...
Is it still listed on eBay - perhaps under completed auctions? I'd love to see how it was listed.
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Old 12-01-07, 08:22 AM   #14
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Is it still listed on eBay - perhaps under completed auctions? I'd love to see how it was listed.
I checked and couldnt find it....
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Old 12-01-07, 08:48 AM   #15
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kinda leaning toward the seller on this one. you took advantage of a deal too good to be true (ignorant seller) and got a 600 group in your pocket and now want more. I usually side with the buyer, but this time not so much...
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Old 12-01-07, 09:21 AM   #16
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Ummm, she doesn't owe you squat.
She's not a seller, you're not a buyer in the sense of walking into a store or private sale.
This was an open auction. If she had no implied warranty stated that's it.

You didn't do your homework. Black and white, plain and simple.

There's a Canadian shop that does Vitus repairs. Contact them, I'm sure the adhesive is the same process.
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