Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Syd Mottram track bike---Nervex lugs and bottom bracket

    Hi, I am a long-time lurker and this is the first bike that I've bought that I feel would fit this forum. I don't know too much about it except what the man who sold it to me said. It is a Syd Mottram track frame made out of Reynolds 531 re-painted cherry red, that is all he knew. I've emailled him to see if he is the original owner or if he knows anything else about it, we shall see what he says.

    Here is what I know----the lugs are Nervex and so is the BB. The seat-stay lug has a "73" punched into it and a smaller "07" to the top right of the "73", does this indicate a year?

    The BB has a long number under the stamped "NERVEX" and that number beings with what looks like "59", could this be the year that the BB was made?

    I have never heard of "maxy" cranks and I haven't really tinkered with the bike much but the chain-ring appears to be one piece, meaning I cannot change it out unless I track down a matching chain-ring, is that right? Luckily, the man who sold me it gave me a bag with about 20 track cogs in it of all sorts of different sizes, so I should be okay. Right now, it is set up 48X18 and it is fine.

    The bike is very light and I believe him when he said that the tubes are 531 but the seat-post has a "27" stamped in it, I had always thought that the 531 series of tubes were 27.2, is that right?

    The wheels are tubular and are quite light as well. The front is a red-label Fiamme rim on a Normany hub and the rear is a Milremo rim on a Airlite hub, a company I have never heard of. I think it says Airlite, I am not 100% sure of that but in front of the name is a stamped "HH" in a circle, if that means anything to anyone.

    The stem is a Cinelli and the bars have no markings on them, the seat is a very comfy Milremo seat and I suppose it is a track seat as it is rather long and narrow. I've got a bunch of photos here, hopefully someone can tell me a little bit about this bike, I really like it and would like to track down some decals for it but I don't know where to start.

















    Last edited by Stan Wilts; 12-12-07 at 11:58 AM.

  2. #2
    or tarckeemoon, depending marqueemoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    the pesto of cities
    My Bikes
    Davidson Impulse, Merckx Titanium AX, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road, Cross Check custom build, On-One Il Pomino, Shawver Cycles cross, Zion 737, Mercian Vincitore, Brompton S1L, Charge Juicer
    Posts
    7,006
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Beautiful bike. I love that style of track ends and I love Nervex lugs.

    You have the spelling of the builder's name wrong though.

    http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...ramcycles.html

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Ah, thank you so much, that is why I wasn't returning anything with Google. That is how the bike's previous owner spelled it for me.

    Looking at the pictures, I will have to get some not-so-darkish ones, the bike is really nicer looking in person. I am in Toronto and it is snowy out, maybe tomorrow.

  4. #4
    Don't call me sir cmdr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    My Bikes
    1954 Holdsworth 3 speed, 1969 Bob Jackson, 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred (retired), 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 2004 Santa Cruz Blur Classic, 2012 Specialized P3, 2013 Specialized Roubaix Expert Disc
    Posts
    611
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think that frame deserves better components, Sugino and Dia Compe just don't cut it IMO.
    Beautiful bike though.
    1969 Bob Jackson, 1988 Miyata Twelve Hundred, 1989 Schwinn Paramount, 1996 Specialized S-works Stumpjumper, 1999 Independent Fabrications Steel Crown Jewel, 2011 Giant Anthem X 29, 2011 Specialized P-3

  5. #5
    Lanky Lass East Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Take a deep breath, and ask--What would Sheldon do?
    My Bikes
    Nishiki Nut! International, Pro, Olympic 12, Sport mixte, and others too numerous to mention.
    Posts
    21,575
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Now that I've finished feeling faint over the beauty of that colour--you mean it's even more beautiful in person?

    Uh, decals. There must be someone who's got them, otherwise there's member JRrestore who can make replicas.

    Oh, and Welcome to Bike Forums and C & V !

    East Hill
    ___________________________________________________
    TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    My Bikes
    Cinelli, Paramount, Raleigh, Carlton, Zeus, Gemniani, Frejus, Legnano, Pinarello, Falcon
    Posts
    5,770
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think the 73 stamped in the lug may be the angle, I think 59 on the BB may be the size (although if long, probably the serial number). It looks old, possibly 40s-50s. Airlight was a British hub maker and may be original, the rest of the parts seem not to be. How many spokes in rear? "Maxi" cranks were kinda bargain basement Japanese cranks. 27 can be a Reynolds size.

    I think it may be what is called a "path racer" rather than a true track bike, which was kinda a simplified British sporting or training bike.

    Beautiful frame and worth tracking down more authentic parts I'd think.

  7. #7
    Senior Member jet sanchEz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    7,294
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Wilts View Post
    Ah, thank you so much, that is why I wasn't returning anything with Google. That is how the bike's previous owner spelled it for me.

    Looking at the pictures, I will have to get some not-so-darkish ones, the bike is really nicer looking in person. I am in Toronto and it is snowy out, maybe tomorrow.
    Love it, thanks for sharing.
    Last edited by jet sanchEz; 03-14-08 at 04:43 PM.

  8. #8
    juneeaa memba!
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    boogled up in...Idaho!
    My Bikes
    Crap. The box is not big enough...
    Posts
    5,611
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The Airlite hub is top drawer. The cranks and brake are best left at the thrift shop. You want to replace those two parts with campagnolo (strada unless you have a lotta cash, then pista), and then start a long search for the matching front wheel. you'll perhaps find a campy bottom bracket once you pull the cranks... dbakl is probably right about everything, although the bike doesn't look like a 59 cm frame to me...

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is great info guys, thanks.

    dbakl: thanks, the bike has a standover height of 29 inches so it isn't a 59 but I did find a 4-digit number on the BB, it is 6854, perhaps it was made in 1968 and is a size 54 frame? The long serial number is directly under the word "NERVEX" so I thought that perhaps this was a serial number associated with the Nervex BB. I also think the 73 could be the angle of the seat-tube, it is rather relaxed, isn't it? I will try to get a better picture of the bike tomorrow so that the geometry is more evident.

    I still haven't seen a close-up picture of Sid Mottram decals, I guess something will turn up one day, thanks for all the input everyone.
    Last edited by Stan Wilts; 03-14-08 at 04:41 PM.

  10. #10
    Stop reading my posts! unworthy1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    8,050
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    really nice bike! And yes it does deserve some better parts hung on it. I reckon this may be an "all-rounder" or "pathfinder", and maybe Nick at Lloyd's may have some decals, or can be of help locating them. If you can only find artwork, then JR in SoCal can make up decal reproductions.

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by unworthy1
    really nice bike! And yes it does deserve some better parts hung on it. I reckon this may be an "all-rounder" or "pathfinder", and maybe Nick at Lloyd's may have some decals, or can be of help locating them. If you can only find artwork, then JR in SoCal can make up decal reproductions.
    Thanks! Can you provide a link to Lloyd's website please? Someone else mentioned a "path racer" is this bike not a velodrome bike then?

    Also, the seller replied to my email and told me that he is the original owner and that he knew nothing about the bike except that it is definitely a Sid Mottram because he is the one that had it repainted a couple of years ago. He said that the bike was originally blue and that all the lugs were outlined, it sounds nice.
    Last edited by Stan Wilts; 04-02-08 at 05:58 AM.

  12. #12
    or tarckeemoon, depending marqueemoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    the pesto of cities
    My Bikes
    Davidson Impulse, Merckx Titanium AX, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road, Cross Check custom build, On-One Il Pomino, Shawver Cycles cross, Zion 737, Mercian Vincitore, Brompton S1L, Charge Juicer
    Posts
    7,006
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Wilts View Post
    Thanks! Can you provide a link to Lloyd's website please? Someone else mentioned a "path racer" is this bike not a velodrome bike then?

    Also, the seller replied to my email and told me that he is not the original owner and that he knew nothing about the bike except that it is definitely a Sid Mottram because he is the one that had it repainted a couple of years ago. He said that the bike was originally blue and that all the lugs were outlined, it sounds nice.
    I wouldn't classify that as a path racer really *<edit - I may be very wrong about this term - see next post>*. My understanding of the "path racer" concept is that it is a bike designed to be ridden to the track, raced, then ridden home, so usually you'll see features like clearance and eyelets for fenders and a little longer wheelbase.

    Here's a Mercian example rigged up to carry a spare pair of wheels.


    Last edited by marqueemoon; 12-14-07 at 03:38 AM.

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hrm, I see, what do you think it would best be described as then? A pathfinder? What exactly is a pathfinder? Sorry for these silly questions, I am just curious as to what the expectations of this bike would have been.

    I wanted to take a photo of the bike in better light but there are 10 inches of snow on the ground now. The angles are almost exactly like that Mercian.

  14. #14
    or tarckeemoon, depending marqueemoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    the pesto of cities
    My Bikes
    Davidson Impulse, Merckx Titanium AX, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road, Cross Check custom build, On-One Il Pomino, Shawver Cycles cross, Zion 737, Mercian Vincitore, Brompton S1L, Charge Juicer
    Posts
    7,006
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Wilts View Post
    Hrm, I see, what do you think it would best be described as then? A pathfinder? What exactly is a pathfinder? Sorry for these silly questions, I am just curious as to what the expectations of this bike would have been.

    I wanted to take a photo of the bike in better light but there are 10 inches of snow on the ground now. The angles are almost exactly like that Mercian.
    My guess is this frame was designed specifically for velodrome use and maybe a little training on the road (with a front brake), and not as much of a do-everything bike.

    The drilling on the fork for the front brake may or may not be original. If it was cleanly done and doesn't look fresh, chances are good the drilling is original. An original brake hole and longer track ends (see archived thread link) would make a strong case that the bike was designed for at least part-time use on the road. The track ends do look a little longer than most.

    I can't speak for the angles of the Mottram and the Mercian, but clearly they are different designs. The Mercian has substantial clearance (look at the brake reach, the width of the fork crown, and the size of the tires). It's also drilled for a rear brake and has eyelets for fenders which fit with room to spare.

    There is a lot of contradictory info on terminology. See this archived thread.

    I found the Mercian pics here. There it's described as "Mercian path" (but not a "path racer"), which contradicts the info in the archived thread. In the interest of simplicity I would call your bike a "track bike" and leave it at that. If someone corrects you they probably know more than either of us and maybe they can shed more light on the bike.
    Last edited by marqueemoon; 12-14-07 at 03:48 AM.

  15. #15
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks marquee, those are some very helpful link. Thanks everyone for your patience, the C&V forum is the best!

  16. #16
    Lanky Lass East Hill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Take a deep breath, and ask--What would Sheldon do?
    My Bikes
    Nishiki Nut! International, Pro, Olympic 12, Sport mixte, and others too numerous to mention.
    Posts
    21,575
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Wilts View Post
    Thanks marquee, those are some very helpful link. Thanks everyone for your patience, the C&V forum is the best!
    Thank YOU for contributing .

    East Hill
    ___________________________________________________
    TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...

  17. #17
    Stop reading my posts! unworthy1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    8,050
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    link to contact Nick at Lloyd's;
    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...YDS/decals.htm
    I hear is is slow to respond cause he is an infrequent email checker, so be patient. Even though he doesn't have your make listed as in stock, he's likely to know of it.

  18. #18
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,223
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Not sure this is much help, but that seatpost looks like a Gipiemme. Being an odd size, it may be original. I had a nearly identical model on a mid-70s Austro-Daimler (I think it was 1976, but I couldn't confirm it).

    Oh, and 27.0 can be found on Reynolds 531 double-butted tubes. Nice find!




  19. #19
    Senior Moment Peter_B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    382
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Some Sid Mottram info at http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...ramcycles.html . The long number on the Nervex bottom bracket is a Nervex casting number; I have one on my Bates which has a separate serial number. Airlite hubs were made by British Hub Company, and good quality as mentioned; see http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/airlites.html . Definition of Path racer by Hilary Stone: "track and path are synonyms sofixed wheel only and without a brake. But road/track or road/path frameswere built as the name implies for both road and track use and could(and were) used on the road with a Sturmey both for training on and for time trials." ......... Peter

  20. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    JunkYardBike, thank you, it would appear that this is the exact same seat-post that is on this bicycle minus the engraving. Does yours have a spring around the bolt that attaches the seat to the post? The seat-post binding bolt on the frame is a Gipiemme so I suppose that it stands to reason for the seat post to also be a Gipiemme.


    Thank you Peter, that is great information. I had figured that the long serial number was associated with the Nervex name, I just didn't know in what capacity. I took some pictures of the rear which is a fixed/fixed hub with 40 spokes, do you suppose this was a tandem wheel? Or were 40 spokes pretty common back then? The rear looks rather dusty and quite blue but I think that is a trick of the camera, they appear to be bare metal in person. The axle is chromed but the chrome is pitted, I can make out the "Airlite" name easily and the logo stamp, will there be a serial number on it to tell the year? The hub is very smooth and the Milremo rim is light and true, so far.



    Last edited by Stan Wilts; 12-15-07 at 08:18 AM.

  21. #21
    Senior Moment Peter_B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    382
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Stan, BH Airlite hubs were available in anodized colors; I seen red, blue, gold, & green. The flange anodizing is typically seen faded this many years later so yours looks "normal" to me. It was popular to run 32 spoke hubs in the front and forty spoke hubs in the rear, so your rear hub is "normal" and not a tandem hub. Rear hubs were typically fixed/free or fixed/fixed. The preference was single speed or Sturmey Archer hubs. Plus derailleur setups were very expensive to the average British cyclist for some years after WW2. I don't know if BH Airlite hubs themselves can be dated, and those hubs were produced over a broad timespan. The Holdsworth "Aids to Cycling" catalogs list colored flanges as being available in the 1957 catalog; colored flanges aren't mentioned in the 1955 catalog. Colored flanges are listed as available through the 1965 catalog, and then the 1969 catalog doesn't list them as available. So either color flange BH Airlite hubs were discontinued sometime after 1965 or Holdsworth ceased to carry them and they continued to be available. ......Peter

  22. #22
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,223
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Wilts View Post
    Does yours have a spring around the bolt that attaches the seat to the post?
    Yep!

  23. #23
    Senior Moment Peter_B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    382
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Stan, regarding the brake, a Weinmann sidepull may not have "snob appeal" but that Weinmann sidepull on the front is authentic. Change it and you make the bike less authentic. I have read repeatedly that it was popular on British time trial bike setups since it was lightweight, and inexpensive. Weight and durability is important, and Weinmann brakes stop well enough. Campy brakes were VERY expensive and few would opt for a heavier brake on the front of a time trial bike, plus break up an expensive Campy brakeset. Lose the crankset of course! ...Peter

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •