Stan Wilts

Hi, I am a long-time lurker and this is the first bike that I've bought that I feel would fit this forum. I don't know too much about it except what the man who sold it to me said. It is a Syd Mottram track frame made out of Reynolds 531 re-painted cherry red, that is all he knew. I've emailled him to see if he is the original owner or if he knows anything else about it, we shall see what he says.

Here is what I know----the lugs are Nervex and so is the BB. The seat-stay lug has a "73" punched into it and a smaller "07" to the top right of the "73", does this indicate a year?

The BB has a long number under the stamped "NERVEX" and that number beings with what looks like "59", could this be the year that the BB was made?

I have never heard of "maxy" cranks and I haven't really tinkered with the bike much but the chain-ring appears to be one piece, meaning I cannot change it out unless I track down a matching chain-ring, is that right? Luckily, the man who sold me it gave me a bag with about 20 track cogs in it of all sorts of different sizes, so I should be okay. Right now, it is set up 48X18 and it is fine.

The bike is very light and I believe him when he said that the tubes are 531 but the seat-post has a "27" stamped in it, I had always thought that the 531 series of tubes were 27.2, is that right?

The wheels are tubular and are quite light as well. The front is a red-label Fiamme rim on a Normany hub and the rear is a Milremo rim on a Airlite hub, a company I have never heard of. I think it says Airlite, I am not 100% sure of that but in front of the name is a stamped "HH" in a circle, if that means anything to anyone.

The stem is a Cinelli and the bars have no markings on them, the seat is a very comfy Milremo seat and I suppose it is a track seat as it is rather long and narrow. I've got a bunch of photos here, hopefully someone can tell me a little bit about this bike, I really like it and would like to track down some decals for it but I don't know where to start.

marqueemoon

Beautiful bike. I love that style of track ends and I love Nervex lugs.

You have the spelling of the builder's name wrong though.

https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...ramcycles.html

Stan Wilts

Ah, thank you so much, that is why I wasn't returning anything with Google. That is how the bike's previous owner spelled it for me.

Looking at the pictures, I will have to get some not-so-darkish ones, the bike is really nicer looking in person. I am in Toronto and it is snowy out, maybe tomorrow.

cmdr

I think that frame deserves better components, Sugino and Dia Compe just don't cut it IMO.
Beautiful bike though.

East Hill

Now that I've finished feeling faint over the beauty of that colour--you mean it's even more beautiful in person?

Uh, decals. There must be someone who's got them, otherwise there's member JRrestore who can make replicas.

Oh, and Welcome to Bike Forums and C & V !

East Hill

dbakl

I think the 73 stamped in the lug may be the angle, I think 59 on the BB may be the size (although if long, probably the serial number). It looks old, possibly 40s-50s. Airlight was a British hub maker and may be original, the rest of the parts seem not to be. How many spokes in rear? "Maxi" cranks were kinda bargain basement Japanese cranks. 27 can be a Reynolds size.

I think it may be what is called a "path racer" rather than a true track bike, which was kinda a simplified British sporting or training bike.

Beautiful frame and worth tracking down more authentic parts I'd think.

jet sanchEz

Love it, thanks for sharing.

luker

The Airlite hub is top drawer. The cranks and brake are best left at the thrift shop. You want to replace those two parts with campagnolo (strada unless you have a lotta cash, then pista), and then start a long search for the matching front wheel. you'll perhaps find a campy bottom bracket once you pull the cranks... dbakl is probably right about everything, although the bike doesn't look like a 59 cm frame to me...

Stan Wilts

This is great info guys, thanks.

dbakl: thanks, the bike has a standover height of 29 inches so it isn't a 59 but I did find a 4-digit number on the BB, it is 6854, perhaps it was made in 1968 and is a size 54 frame? The long serial number is directly under the word "NERVEX" so I thought that perhaps this was a serial number associated with the Nervex BB. I also think the 73 could be the angle of the seat-tube, it is rather relaxed, isn't it? I will try to get a better picture of the bike tomorrow so that the geometry is more evident.

I still haven't seen a close-up picture of Sid Mottram decals, I guess something will turn up one day, thanks for all the input everyone.

unworthy1

really nice bike! And yes it does deserve some better parts hung on it. I reckon this may be an "all-rounder" or "pathfinder", and maybe Nick at Lloyd's may have some decals, or can be of help locating them. If you can only find artwork, then JR in SoCal can make up decal reproductions.

Stan Wilts

Thanks! Can you provide a link to Lloyd's website please? Someone else mentioned a "path racer" is this bike not a velodrome bike then?

Also, the seller replied to my email and told me that he is the original owner and that he knew nothing about the bike except that it is definitely a Sid Mottram because he is the one that had it repainted a couple of years ago. He said that the bike was originally blue and that all the lugs were outlined, it sounds nice.

marqueemoon

I wouldn't classify that as a path racer really *<edit - I may be very wrong about this term - see next post>*. My understanding of the "path racer" concept is that it is a bike designed to be ridden to the track, raced, then ridden home, so usually you'll see features like clearance and eyelets for fenders and a little longer wheelbase.

Here's a Mercian example rigged up to carry a spare pair of wheels.

Stan Wilts

Hrm, I see, what do you think it would best be described as then? A pathfinder? What exactly is a pathfinder? Sorry for these silly questions, I am just curious as to what the expectations of this bike would have been.

I wanted to take a photo of the bike in better light but there are 10 inches of snow on the ground now. The angles are almost exactly like that Mercian.

marqueemoon

My guess is this frame was designed specifically for velodrome use and maybe a little training on the road (with a front brake), and not as much of a do-everything bike.

The drilling on the fork for the front brake may or may not be original. If it was cleanly done and doesn't look fresh, chances are good the drilling is original. An original brake hole and longer track ends (see archived thread link) would make a strong case that the bike was designed for at least part-time use on the road. The track ends do look a little longer than most.

I can't speak for the angles of the Mottram and the Mercian, but clearly they are different designs. The Mercian has substantial clearance (look at the brake reach, the width of the fork crown, and the size of the tires). It's also drilled for a rear brake and has eyelets for fenders which fit with room to spare.

There is a lot of contradictory info on terminology. See this archived thread.

I found the Mercian pics here. There it's described as "Mercian path" (but not a "path racer"), which contradicts the info in the archived thread. In the interest of simplicity I would call your bike a "track bike" and leave it at that. If someone corrects you they probably know more than either of us and maybe they can shed more light on the bike.

Stan Wilts

Thanks marquee, those are some very helpful link. Thanks everyone for your patience, the C&V forum is the best!

East Hill

Thank YOU for contributing .

East Hill

unworthy1

link to contact Nick at Lloyd's;
https://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...YDS/decals.htm
I hear is is slow to respond cause he is an infrequent email checker, so be patient. Even though he doesn't have your make listed as in stock, he's likely to know of it.

JunkYardBike

Not sure this is much help, but that seatpost looks like a Gipiemme. Being an odd size, it may be original. I had a nearly identical model on a mid-70s Austro-Daimler (I think it was 1976, but I couldn't confirm it).

Oh, and 27.0 can be found on Reynolds 531 double-butted tubes. Nice find!

Peter_B

Some Sid Mottram info at https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...ramcycles.html . The long number on the Nervex bottom bracket is a Nervex casting number; I have one on my Bates which has a separate serial number. Airlite hubs were made by British Hub Company, and good quality as mentioned; see https://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/airlites.html . Definition of Path racer by Hilary Stone: "track and path are synonyms sofixed wheel only and without a brake. But road/track or road/path frameswere built as the name implies for both road and track use and could(and were) used on the road with a Sturmey both for training on and for time trials." ......... Peter

Stan Wilts

JunkYardBike, thank you, it would appear that this is the exact same seat-post that is on this bicycle minus the engraving. Does yours have a spring around the bolt that attaches the seat to the post? The seat-post binding bolt on the frame is a Gipiemme so I suppose that it stands to reason for the seat post to also be a Gipiemme.


Thank you Peter, that is great information. I had figured that the long serial number was associated with the Nervex name, I just didn't know in what capacity. I took some pictures of the rear which is a fixed/fixed hub with 40 spokes, do you suppose this was a tandem wheel? Or were 40 spokes pretty common back then? The rear looks rather dusty and quite blue but I think that is a trick of the camera, they appear to be bare metal in person. The axle is chromed but the chrome is pitted, I can make out the "Airlite" name easily and the logo stamp, will there be a serial number on it to tell the year? The hub is very smooth and the Milremo rim is light and true, so far.

Peter_B

Stan, BH Airlite hubs were available in anodized colors; I seen red, blue, gold, & green. The flange anodizing is typically seen faded this many years later so yours looks "normal" to me. It was popular to run 32 spoke hubs in the front and forty spoke hubs in the rear, so your rear hub is "normal" and not a tandem hub. Rear hubs were typically fixed/free or fixed/fixed. The preference was single speed or Sturmey Archer hubs. Plus derailleur setups were very expensive to the average British cyclist for some years after WW2. I don't know if BH Airlite hubs themselves can be dated, and those hubs were produced over a broad timespan. The Holdsworth "Aids to Cycling" catalogs list colored flanges as being available in the 1957 catalog; colored flanges aren't mentioned in the 1955 catalog. Colored flanges are listed as available through the 1965 catalog, and then the 1969 catalog doesn't list them as available. So either color flange BH Airlite hubs were discontinued sometime after 1965 or Holdsworth ceased to carry them and they continued to be available. ......Peter

JunkYardBike

Yep!

Peter_B

Stan, regarding the brake, a Weinmann sidepull may not have "snob appeal" but that Weinmann sidepull on the front is authentic. Change it and you make the bike less authentic. I have read repeatedly that it was popular on British time trial bike setups since it was lightweight, and inexpensive. Weight and durability is important, and Weinmann brakes stop well enough. Campy brakes were VERY expensive and few would opt for a heavier brake on the front of a time trial bike, plus break up an expensive Campy brakeset. Lose the crankset of course! ...Peter