Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    13
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Vintage Bianchi ID

    So I've got a vintage Bianchi that I'm trying to identify so I can sell it. The bottom bracket has 4.0 102 stamped on it, but I don't know if that is a S/N since it is different from what others report on S/Ns. The bike is metallic blue. Also it has a Piaggio decal on it. Unfortunately the only other decals are the Bianchi decals on the bottom tube up to the steering head. I wonder if it is worth taking to a shop to get appraised.

    Specs:

    ~58cm frame
    ~98cm wheelbase
    68mm Bottom bracket
    Suntour Shifters and Derailuers
    Campagnolo gears and arms
    Columbus tubes

    UPDATE:
    After a little more looking on www.bulgier.net I think I found that this is a Sprint/81 based on the rear axle frame work.
    Can anyone confirm this? Or better yet does anyone have pictures of their sprint/81?

    Thanks

    Any other good info for better ID? Thanks for any help in advance.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by bbjac; 12-26-07 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Uploaded Pics

  2. #2
    Senior Member Gary Fountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
    My Bikes
    Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 00, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.
    Posts
    2,194
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I am intrigued by your bike. It has a pump peg or nipple on the steerer tube below the top tube and two sets of water bottle bosses sugesting it is a later 80's build yet it has above the bottom bracket cable guides suggesting a much earlier time frame.

    The width of the bottom bracket is 68mm suggesting that it is a Japanese Bianchi - not that there is anything wrong with that. It just makes the bike worth a little less.

    With a Piaggio decal I would estimate an '85 or '86 frame build.

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    13
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I guess a second look at the pictures a second time

    http://www.bulgier.net/pics/bike/Cat...anchi-85/4.jpg

    the decal is definitely more consistent with the 85' models as well as the rear axle setup except that mine doesn't have the polished chainstay. Hmmm...
    Still confused

    Would more pictures help?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Gary Fountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
    My Bikes
    Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 00, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.
    Posts
    2,194
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi bbjac,

    The Bulgier brochures are of Italian built Bianchi's and could only be used as a guide. I think the down tube decal is a similar style to an '85 decal as well.

    I think Piaggio owned Bianchi from 1980 to 1986 but I can't confirm 1986.

  5. #5
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
    My Bikes
    1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
    Posts
    14,786
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I share Gary's intrigue, for the same reasons. Yes, I strongly believe yours is a Japanese frame and concur there is nothing wrong with that. (One of my friends has suggested that Tange CrMo of that vintage is arguably stronger and more uniform than Columbus.)
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
    Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
    Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
    Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    13
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    More Pics

    I don't know if it will help, but here's a bunch more better quality photos to oogle over.

    Also, the pedals are Suntour, but the pedal arms are Campagnolo. The handlebars and brake-grabs are Specialized and I redid the brake cables myself.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by bbjac; 12-27-07 at 10:13 AM. Reason: Added Info

  7. #7
    Senior Member Gary Fountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
    My Bikes
    Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 00, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.
    Posts
    2,194
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi bbjac,

    The new photo's reveal Columbus tubing - SL infact. There are serial numbers stamped either side of the seat cluster and they appear to be replicated on the bottom bracket (although I cannot quite see the numbers clearly). If it were an Italian built frame there would probably be a decal stating that it was made in Italy. Also, if it were made in Italy the 4.O on the LHS of the seat cluster (during the Piaggio era) would suggest that it was made in 1984. The "O" might not be a zero - it may be a letter "O" indicating a mid year build.

    I know little about Japanese built Bianchi's and even less about their serial numbers - sorry.

    I think the key to the place of manufacture remains the bottom bracket. I'm sticking to my guns and suggest that a 68mm wide bottom bracket with a 1.375" x 24tpi thread (British) is an indication that the bike is Japanese built.

    Best of luck with your search,

    Gary.

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    13
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks so much for your help.

    I don't know if you read my intro to the site but I got into bicycling about 7 years ago and unfortunately a neck injury prevented me from pursuing the sport. I picked up this great Bianchi before that happened and have only really been able to look at it since. I tried a brief riding stint, but it was just too much. Anyway, hopefully I can find someone who will appreciate and enjoy it more than I. Again, thanks for your inputs.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Gary Fountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
    My Bikes
    Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 00, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.
    Posts
    2,194
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It looks like a nice and well kept bike and probably rides very nicely. I too had an injury about 7 years ago that saw me give up riding an a daily basis. Fortunately I had many years of riding to keep me interested in bikes.

    A neck injury is most serious and riding does place a great deal of stress on the neck. I hope you sell the bike easily and can finance a new pastime that doesn't cause pain.

    Bianchi's are quite special, perhaps because they have such a rich history and probably because of the celeste colour (of which yours is not - but it is attractive anyway). I'm sure a buyer is only waiting for your advertisment.

    Good luck,

    Gary.

  10. #10
    vjp
    vjp is offline
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    2,146
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The rear dropouts have the threaded holes for the Campagnolo Porta Catena device and I believe that the time frame for this is about 1978 to 1981(?) or so. Above BB guides along with the different seat stay ends and fork crown logo makes me think early 80's.

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    13
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So I took the bike to a shop and they unfortunately were not so experienced with vintage Bianchi's, but did say, just based on the condition and geometry of the bike, that perhaps I could get anywhere from $300 to perhaps even $600. I'm thinking more in the $300 range, but I really don't know.

    I don't suppose anyone could make a ball-park estimate on the retail value or validate the shop's conclusion of this bike given the pictures and info I have?

  12. #12
    Senior Member Gary Fountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Hervey Bay, Qld, Australia.
    My Bikes
    Colnago (82, 85, 89, 90, 91, 00, 03), 85 Cinelli, 90 Rossin, 83 Alan, 82 Bianchi, 78 Fountain, 2 x Pinarello, Malvern Star (37), Hillman (70's), 80's Beretto Lo-Pro Track, 80's Kenevans Lo-Pro, Columbus Max (95), DeGrandi (80's) Track.
    Posts
    2,194
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'd say the bike shop was 'in the ball-park'. You never know who's looking to buy.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,427
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That is an oddball Bianchi. The lug set, BB shell, and seat-stay top is the same ones used for late 70's to about '81 on the Italian Rekord models that were built with Zeta or Alle trubing. Same cable routing as well.

    The second bottle cage bosses and the pump-peg would date it later (if they are original to the bike).

    Is the BB confirmed English? I know the OP listed it as 68mm but did he confirm the threading?

    Maybe Bianchi sent a bunch of outdated lugs and frame parts to Japan for the first models to be built there. Guess they sent tubes and drop-outs as well, as no other Japanese Bianchi's I've seen were SL with Campy drops?

    As for price, I think $200-$300 would be fair. If Celeste you could double that.

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    13
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Unfortunately I haven't been ambitious enough to check the threading on the BB unless that would make it worth more.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,427
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bbjac View Post
    Unfortunately I haven't been ambitious enough to check the threading on the BB unless that would make it worth more.
    The cups should say right on them what the thread is, takes two seconds to check. If it's 36x24, then yes I would say it's an Italian bike and possibly worth more.

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    13
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes in fact the cups do say 36x24. Does that means it definitely is Italian made or perhaps more likely?

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,427
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bbjac View Post
    Yes in fact the cups do say 36x24. Does that means it definitely is Italian made or perhaps more likely?
    Personally, I do think it's an Italian frame. It's odd that it uses the 70's style lugs, but has the 2 bottle bosses, TT cable guides, early style fork crown and a pump-peg. Maybe it was repainted in the mid 80's and the braze-ons were added? The decal placement on the D/T is pretty bad (too close to the shifters). Or it might just be a Euro only model?

    Anyway, it looks like a good quality one. But again the color and mix of non Italian parts keeps the cash value pretty low.

  18. #18
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    13
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Would $400 perhaps be a fair price for this bike?

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    9,997
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    If the shell is only 68mm wide but Italian threaded, there is always the possibilkity that was orignally English but had been stripped and rethreaded to Italian. However, the serial number format does indicate an Italian manufactured frame. Some of the frame attributes seem contradictory, but the majority and strongest traits point towards a late 1984 tretubi model. It would be interesting to know if the bottom inside of the fork's steering column has the helical ridges.

  20. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    13
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
    ...It would be interesting to know if the bottom inside of the fork's steering column has the helical ridges.
    That sounds complicated. I would probably need to take out the bearings and races and all to get a good view of the steering column correct?

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,427
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
    If the shell is only 68mm wide but Italian threaded, there is always the possibilkity that was orignally English but had been stripped and rethreaded to Italian. However, the serial number format does indicate an Italian manufactured frame. Some of the frame attributes seem contradictory, but the majority and strongest traits point towards a late 1984 tretubi model. It would be interesting to know if the bottom inside of the fork's steering column has the helical ridges.
    I bet it's actually a 70mm shell and they measured wrong the first time. Or a 70mm that has been heavily faced.

    It probably is a tretubi "Campione" level bike, as all the pro bikes had under BB cable routing from at least 1980. But I will say the lug finish work is pretty nice, at least much nicer than my mid-level 1980 Rekord 748 which shares the same lug set. They actually did some filing on this one.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    9,997
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by bbjac View Post
    That sounds complicated. I would probably need to take out the bearings and races and all to get a good view of the steering column correct?
    No, just remove the front wheel and look at the inside of the FORK's steering column, from the bottom. The ridges are not very tall and only a few millimeters wide, so you may want to use a flashlight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Otis View Post
    I bet it's actually a 70mm shell and they measured wrong the first time. Or a 70mm that has been heavily faced....
    Yes, it may have been measured incorrectly. However, your alternative is unlikely. A shell which had been heavily faced, to 68mm width, would have 2mm of adjustable cup protruding beyond the lockring, which this does not. Of course, an English spindle would correct this situation, but it's unlikely that the assembly operator would have taken the time and trouble to get one.
    Last edited by T-Mar; 01-07-08 at 12:23 PM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    378
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'd say the shifter cable guides are more indicative of the age than the water bottle bosses. Late 70's to early 80's? What diameter is the seat post?

    Value - I think it's worth what the frame and crank would go for - $300 to $400. $600 would be a hard sell, but not out of line if it was fully Campagnolo equiped, was Celeste, and had better decals. It's my size too....

    edit - I do see a Piaggio decal there as well....could it have been repainted by a Bianchi dealer, and that decal was added along with the poor location downtube decal? Seems like an odd combo of 'details' on that frame.

  24. #24
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    13
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well I measured the BB shell again and it's definitely 68mm perhaps 68.5mm, but definitely more than a millimeter shy of 70. The seat post diameter looks to be about 27mm.

    I wasn't able to see any helical ridges looking up through the bottom of the steering tube, but I attached a picture so you can see for yourself.

    The Piaggio decal is definitely a decal because it is flaking off like a decal and not like paint.

    Oh, and I didn't mention this before but the bike is about 23lbs., which I'm told is perhaps a little on the heavy side.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    9,997
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    The lack of helical ridges in the steering column confirms a tretubi frame where only the three main tubes are Columbus SL. Given the era, the forks and stays are probably Columbus Aelle. Correct seat post diameter for SL main tubes is 27.2mm, though at 58cm it is borderline for the heavier gauge SP, which uses a 27.0mm post. However, most manufacturers ream an SP tube to 27.2mm so they only have to use a single post size, so it is usually hard to tell the tubeset unless it's stated on the decal. A 27.0mm or 27.2mm post could indicate either SL or SP.

    Regardless of the bottom bracket width, I'm still convinced it is an Italian frame on the basis of the serial number format. Also, based on the serial number, it should be a 1984 model.

    Both the Campione d'Italia and Nuvo Racing models used tretubi frames in 1984. Assuming the crankarms are original, the Campione is the more likely candidate. It used a Campagnolo Gran Sport group with Nuovo Record derailleurs and cost $790 US.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •