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  1. #1
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    Mystery unusual English Lightweight needing ID. Pics!!

    Just found this lovely mystery lightweight machine, probably late 60s.
    No badges/decals to indicate make, but has good mid range components and in good working order.
    Rode it for 10 miles or so yesterday to bring it home and it works perfectly.

    Looks original and little used, and spec as I know it now is:

    GB stem and Coureur calipers.
    Ornate lugs!
    5 speed with Atom flip flop hub.
    Bayliss Wiley BB with oiler nipple.
    Steel wheels, Huret derailer/changer.
    Italia saddle.
    Blumels lightweight guards and reflector.











    Obviously from a small maker, probably Coventry made.
    The triple triangle fame is quite distinctive.
    (Did GT copy this??)
    Cleaned up/lubricated a little from how it appears here and it rides very smoothly.

  2. #2
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    Late 1960s or late 1950s/early 1960s?
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
    Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
    Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
    Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    That is very cool, 50s I'd say from the look of the lugs and the fork. The parts may be newer than the frame. There was a company that popularized that seatstay treatment, but I'm drawing a blank right now. I think Hetchins made them too.

  4. #4
    rhm
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    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
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    The BB oiler suggests a date in the early 60's or earlier. The fact that the oiler is the same color as the frame suggests a rattle-can respray. You might consider wiping at it with some Goof-off, see if there's anything left of the original paint and decals.

    What's the seatpost size? That may tell you something about the frame material.

  5. #5
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    yup, hellenic seat stays. They were a very well known feature of
    Hetchins frames, although not exclusive of them. I find 3 marques on
    CR that show hellenic seatstays. Hetchins, Merlin (in Bob Jackson era) and
    Thanet. The Thanet Silverlight had a strange offset bottom bracket so I don't think
    that's it.
    Most of the Hetchins I've seen had more elaborate lugs, and that is more elaborate than
    the Italian style lugs.
    By process of elimination I'd say probably a Merlin, 1960's at the latest.
    Of course this is wild assed conjecture on my part, I do suggest you try to
    get in touch with Hilary Stone about this one (he sometimes posts here but most often
    hangs out at CR list.)

    Marty
    Sono pił lento di quel che sembra.
    Odio la gente, tutti.

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  6. #6
    Stop reading my posts! unworthy1's Avatar
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    ^Yes^ contact Hilary or Norris Lockley (also of the CR list), they should have some help for you. I hope that isn't a crack in the BB shell near the oiler! Let it be dirt...

  7. #7
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    I am showing my ignorance but what is the CR list? Thanks, George

  8. #8
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    I haven't got a clue what it is but it is certainly, gorgeous.

    Cr is Classic Rendezvous

  9. #9
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    I was wondering why they were called hellenic seat stays then I stumbled across this
    'Hellenic stays were introduced by (and named for) the British frame builder Fred Hellens in 1923'
    on Sheldon Brown's web site (should have known the answer would be there).


    marty
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  10. #10
    **** that mattm's Avatar
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    nice lugs!
    cat 1.

    blog

  11. #11
    Senior Member SingeDebile's Avatar
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    very nice indeed!! you have yourself a real find there, I would not think of parting with it if its your size. Sorry no new info, what i knew has already been brought up but good luck!
    bike bike
    ,/(looking for high end steel frames in the larger then life sizes of 68-70cm)
    69cm Romic 'Sport Tourer/Porteur'

  12. #12
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    Thanks for all that guys.
    I thought the best place to start was right here.
    Bought it Saturday and only got it home late Tuesday, so not had time to do much research myself yet.

    Got a few more specific details now I've had a closer look.

    Seat-post is 27.2mm.
    Atom hubs (Diana f/w) are inscribed 23 79 front and 08 79 rear. Might be dates?
    Rigida Superchromix rims which are inscribed 37 + 79 in the diamond.
    Looks like the wheels are 79 to me.
    Probably replacements since the frame seems quite light without the steels.


    Chain-set is Bayliss Wiley and stamped as here.




    AX and AW seem to be date codes.

    Headset is stamped Alatet.
    New one on me!

    Does look as if it has had a repaint at some point.

    The seat stays are quite sophisticated being double tapered, thinner at either end.
    Not seen that before.

    Next step is to check Hilary Stone and maybe Classic Lightweights.
    http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/

    Unfortunately the frame is a little small for me at 23" so it'll probably get passed on eventually.

  13. #13
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    After ten minutes on the Classic Lightweights site I now believe it is a Pollard!
    http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...s/pollard.html

  14. #14
    Senior Member ozneddy's Avatar
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    My money is on "Hetchins" (Hope it is anyway,I luv em)

  15. #15
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    How much you wanna put on it?
    I would love it to be a Hetchins, but it ain't!
    But it's probably rarer than a Hetchins...

  16. #16
    Senior Member BikeManDan's Avatar
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    I say GT triple triangle

  17. #17
    Senior Member ozneddy's Avatar
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    Bwah I wannit to be a hetchins !

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by viscount View Post

    AX and AW seem to be date codes.

    Headset is stamped Alatet.
    New one on me!
    That is a Williams chainset, and those are indeed date codes: AW=1956, with the chainring (AX) being a year later.

    Alatet headsets are fairly common on British lightweights from that era; I have one that's going on my Flying Scot.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozneddy View Post
    Bwah I wannit to be a hetchins !
    Almost nothing about that bike says "Hetchins."

  20. #20
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
    That is a Williams chainset, and those are indeed date codes: AW=1956, with the chainring (AX) being a year later.

    Alatet headsets are fairly common on British lightweights from that era; I have one that's going on my Flying Scot.
    Hey, many thanks for that.
    I was assuming, from the above pics, that it was a Bayliss Wiley chain-set.
    If it is a Williams I stand corrected
    The B W in the stamp led me to assume Bayliss Wiley obviously.
    But this is how you learn and it's a newish area for me, so BF does the job again!!

    If it is 1956/7 that fits in with the serial number which seem to run in series.
    1898 was the last in 1990 and mine is 1596.
    Adds up, and fits in with the Coureur brake set and mudguards!

    The Alatet headset is free and smooth so I don't intend touching that.

    Seems like I know the make and year 24 hours or so after posting the question here!
    How good is that?
    Thanks again.

    P.S. Is your Flying Scot featured here on BF?
    Be good to see it.

  21. #21
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unworthy1 View Post
    I hope that isn't a crack in the BB shell near the oiler! Let it be dirt...
    It certainly was dirt.
    I had a close look after reading yours.
    It's amazing how photos show things that you can miss with the naked eye!

  22. #22
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    Just to finish this old thread with the right answers....
    It is a Pollard, made in Coventry in the late 40s!!
    A beautiful and rare machine.

    See here the brother of the person I sold the frame to riding a similar Pollard hellenic in competition in the late 40s.
    http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...s/pollard.html

    I sold the frame and forks to a certain Peter Brown for a very modest sum. (£75)
    When he received it he complained that I had not included the brakes and stem etc. etc.
    Not an amicable transaction.

    But it taught me lessons which are well learnt now
    IE Do your research. Do your research. Do your research.
    Wiser now

    Should've kept it though.....

  23. #23
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    Just looking through old posts and realise that this one didn't get finished properly.
    I think it could do with a final picture.


    Pretty much original except for Huret RD saddle and later Wiliams chainwheel.
    Rear Blumels guard was being fixed when this photo was taken.

    It is a lovely, distinctive, English lightweight made in Coventry by a relatively unknown, small maker.
    It was found languishing in a shed less than a mile from where it was made.
    (Even on the same road. Stoney Stanton Road, Coventry.)
    Now being restored by its new owner and will probably lead a pampered life from now on.

    Should never have sold it....

  24. #24
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    How bizarre: I was just looking at this one on ebay yesterday:

    http://tinyurl.com/dk6htv

    and reresearching the whole Hellenic stay thing (though this one currently listed doesn't have them. There's yet another one (frame) on ebay UK right now. Maybe one of them has your name on it.

  25. #25
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    That is a loooong shot!? And quite bizarre as you say.
    These machines are ultra rare here in UK so how that one got over there is another story.
    Doesn't look too expensive at $750 though.
    Track frame too, admittedly a late one.
    Still hens teeth stuff though.

    The one on ebay looks a bit of a mess IMO.
    The extra rear struts make it look as if the the rear triangle wasn't up to it in the first place.
    The Hellenic version is the one to have.

    I've only ever had, or even seen, two Pollards.
    The other is here:
    http://flickr.com/photos/bikesruz/

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