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Old 03-12-08, 11:26 AM   #1
caterham
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question to peugeot-philes on frame variations

as a confirmed franco-phobe, it pains me to say that i currently have THREE french bikes in the house these days.
as some of you already know, I recently acquired a very clean, very original little peugeot UO9 from a fellow CV'er for general kickin' 'round town.

Decalling, headbadge,componentry, etc and what's left of the btm bkt serial number all clearly indicate it to be a UO-9 of what looks to be 1980 or 81 vintage, but with one major glaring difference-

The frame's lugwork/construction is unlike any pictures of the peugeot UO series that I've found in the various online peugeot websites and catalogues.

The headtube lugs are of a different, more sculpted design and the seatcluster is of "lugless" construction, rather than a simple plain lug.
the bike is clearly marked as made in france. size is a 19"(50cm). everything else seems to match the us catalogues for either 1980 or 81.


http://mysite.verizon.net/imagelib/s...v7n7&title=UO9

http://mysite.verizon.net/imagelib/s...o09e&title=UO9


so what's the story? why is this one different?

tia.
best,
k








Last edited by caterham; 03-12-08 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 03-12-08, 02:43 PM   #2
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bump

*bump*


okie.....


where's all those bright, good-looking C-V pugheads when you need them?

i'm going out for a spin and i expect to find a half-dozen or so scholarly historical treatises on peugeot UO series product development when i get back.

well,... actually a french bicycle joke or limmerick in poor taste would do.
"there was a young cyclist named dolores..."

thanks.

best,
k

Last edited by caterham; 03-13-08 at 01:52 AM.
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Old 03-12-08, 02:44 PM   #3
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I changed my mind I want it back
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Old 03-12-08, 02:52 PM   #4
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Small frame size required different angles?
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Old 03-12-08, 03:01 PM   #5
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Here's my guess....

In the early 80's Peugeot began the transition away from fully lugged frames to lugless or internaly and externaly brazed frames. Because the head tube joints are a very high stress area I'd venture and guess Peugeot didnt want to take any chances with joint failure in the head tube area.

A few other ideas...

1. Your blue bike is a very small frame based on the proximity of the lugs to one another. There is a chance Peugeots brazing equiptment couldnt braze two lugless joints so close together.

2. Larger Peugeot frames were often lugged while smaller frames were brazed (P8's were lugless P9's were lugged-same bike) lending truth to the idea that they felt lugless joints were lacking some strength/stiffness.
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Old 03-12-08, 04:45 PM   #6
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For the UO-x series, what was the last year for the familiar "Thunderbird" or "Aztec" lugs of the early and mid 1970s?
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Old 03-12-08, 05:14 PM   #7
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For the UO-x series, what was the last year for the familiar "Thunderbird" or "Aztec" lugs of the early and mid 1970s?
1978...possibly later.
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Old 03-12-08, 07:14 PM   #8
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I've owned two Peugeots - Both U0-10's. The first was a 1980 or so with non aztec lugs. The current is a 77 with the aztec lugs. That's about all I know, though.
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Old 03-12-08, 09:41 PM   #9
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Thanks guys. interesting replies.

CT:>>>Small frame size required different angles?<<<

perhaps and certainly would be logical but i've seen earlier uo8's with full brazed lugwork in the 19" size. I'd also expect a lug style more cosmetically similar to the regular size runs for product continuity or at least backtracking to their earlier lug , tho economics & availability might have been the principal deciders. that also wouldn't fully explain the lugless seatcluster treatment.



MJ:>>>In the early 80's Peugeot began the transition away from fully lugged frames to lugless or internaly and externaly brazed frames. Because the head tube joints are a very high stress area I'd venture and guess Peugeot didnt want to take any chances with joint failure in the head tube area.<<<

I'd first thought that my bike might have been a lug to lugless transition model but product catalogues show that peugeot continued to use a full lugged treatment on the UO8, UO9 and UO10 for several years after mine was built, right up until the model was phased out.If indeed it was a phasing-in of lugless construction, I'd expect it to appear more commonly on UO's with each new model year rather than as a stand-alone oddity smack in the middle of the product's run.


MJ:>>>Your blue bike is a very small frame based on the proximity of the lugs to one another. There is a chance Peugeots brazing equiptment couldnt braze two lugless joints so close together.<<<

that's a very intriguing and attractive rationale for the use of a different lug design. by itself, it wouldn't account for the lugless seatcluster on my bike but taken as just one of several manufacturing factors of the small sized bikes(or all of these suggestions combined ), production tooling limitations would present a viable explanation.

Have you ever seen this headlug design on any other peugeot model before? I certainly didn't recognise it.
Would you know if peugeot used outside subcontractors or split production between different divisions/facilities within the recreational bike lines?

thanks again for all your insights.
best,
k

Last edited by caterham; 03-13-08 at 02:01 AM.
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Old 03-13-08, 06:31 AM   #10
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Caterham:

Your bike could be a transition to lugless construction versus away from lugged....

The seat lug joints could be close enough together for their lugless brazing equiptment...

I think it was strength issue. P8's were build as a lugless model except for the largest size which was build with lugs and relabled as a P9.
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Old 03-13-08, 11:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
Your bike could be a transition to lugless construction versus away from lugged....
The seat lug joints could be close enough together for their lugless brazing equiptment...
I think it was strength issue. P8's were build as a lugless model except for the largest size which was build with lugs and relabled as a P9.
hi mj,

imo, there's no question of peugeot's interest in lugless construction.
I'd also expect conservatism in lugless 's introduction to the line, for reliabilty's sake and also to test for market acceptance.
If it were simply a strength issue, I would have expected that after my 19" was produced in 1980, that the following year ,a lugless seatcluster would have appeared on the 21" frames, and so on.

Instead, mine seems to be an isolated example right in the middle of the revised UO-8/9/10 production span.
the lugless seatcluster apparently doesn't appear on the UO series again but rather, the lugless p8 is introduced as a completley separate & distinct model several years after mine.
Based on the progression of the technique's useage thru the peugeot line-up, it would seem that there may have been a problem of acceptance , moreso than simply an issue of reliability-ie- that there was resistance to 'meddling' with the bread-n-butter UO models.

best,
k
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Old 03-13-08, 11:33 AM   #12
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Whats the stamped serail number? Its either on the BB or right rear drop out with the format Y123 45678
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Old 03-13-08, 05:11 PM   #13
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hi mj,

the stamped serial # is:

Y0 7 06789

best,
k

Last edited by caterham; 03-13-08 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 03-13-08, 05:20 PM   #14
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hi mj,

the stamped serial # is:

Y0 7 06178

best,
k
I wanted to confirm its an '80. In regards to the strtength issue and your larger 19" being lugless. Assuming your 19" is a newer model Peugeot could have phased in lugless construction with the headtube being converted last as the headtube just are critical from a safety perspective.

I do agree that they probably had concurrent luggless/lugged models to ease the consumers mindset....but then again maybe they had alot of lugs lying around.
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