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Old 03-13-08, 09:44 AM   #1
w0lffian
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45cm vintage?

I've been on the lookout (craigslist, ebay, garage sales)
for a vintage steel, lugged roadie, or even just frame for a couple years now.
I have been told by friends and bike shops that
motobecane and others in the eighties made made them down to this size,
but I have never seen one.

I'm surprised I've never even seen a miyata or nishiki turn up

but I'm interested in italian mostly..

Did anyone make steel lugged frames in 45cm (top tube 50cm)
in the seventies or eighties?
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Old 03-13-08, 10:24 AM   #2
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I have never found one that small. To be that small, you would be looking at a 'junior' bike, or else one custom made. It's likely that the bike would have 24" wheels, as well.

If they exist, they are very, very rare.

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Old 03-13-08, 10:31 AM   #3
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I had an eighties Trek (400 series, 531 main tubes) that measured 44.5 cm at one point. IIRC, however the top tube was around 55cm; most smaller bikes have longer top tubes. I believe this has to do with the geometry need to run 700 or 27 wheels. Currently, I've got an Asian made Bianchi at 46cm, but the top tube is likewise longer. I can find the measurements on the Trek TT if you like; I gave it to a friend for his kids to ride in kiddie triathalons; after all four of his kids go thru it, he's returning it to me, if it's still intact.
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Old 03-13-08, 11:43 AM   #4
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They are out there and I run into them occasionally - my daughter is 5'1 and I put together a nice vintage 50cm top tub Pinarello, campy eqiped, 700c wheels - even that is a touch big, but it works. Seems like after I got done with the build I came across 3 or 4 48cm frames including a nice Woodrup, but I wasn't interested in building up another bike. Again surprised you haven't found one. MW
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Old 03-13-08, 11:47 AM   #5
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I have never found one that small. To be that small, you would be looking at a 'junior' bike, or else one custom made. It's likely that the bike would have 24" wheels, as well.

If they exist, they are very, very rare.

East Hill

yeah
and I saw your sachs ... as unbelivably as gorgious as the story behind it
I have a 46 vitus which fits "ok" I'm 4'10' and male

modern bikes with 650c wheels and sloping top tubes make modern bikes no problem but at 48 years old, I still love the vintage steel

I just keep looking cuz I still am not convinced they are not out there
but don't know if I'm chasing a ghost
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Old 03-13-08, 11:47 AM   #6
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Well, there's 48 cms which are relatively easy to find (I've got enough!), but a 45cm is really small.

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Old 03-13-08, 12:01 PM   #7
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yeah I run into 47cms often enough too..
and I CAN ride them .. I have several bikes and they all
have thier own ride characteristics with how I've fit them to me
and I have NO problem riding them
and I have 700c bikes as well as 650c modern bikes
but there are sooo many schools of thought about how
close to follow fit calculators.
and the aluminum vitus 979, although I love it, doesn't satisfy that
vintage steel itch.
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Old 03-13-08, 12:04 PM   #8
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I'd suggest looking for junior racers then. It seems to me that the lads here have found a couple of those for me, and at least one was Italian.

I know all too well what you mean about the vintage steel itch .

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Old 03-13-08, 12:05 PM   #9
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I have never found one that small. To be that small, you would be looking at a 'junior' bike, or else one custom made. It's likely that the bike would have 24" wheels, as well.

If they exist, they are very, very rare.

East Hill
I've got am extremely small roadbike. I think it's an Atami. It uses 24" rims. I havent decided what to do with it yet.......On a slightly related topic. The frame was sitting next to my '90 Dyno bmx and they are pretty darn close. I wonder if the geometry could be made road worthy with a fork change? Probably not but I'll have to do some measuring just for the heck of it. I know it can take a really skinny 24" rim/tire combo. I think it would end up looking like a new rig with "compact" geometry and a sloping top tube.
Eh, maybe I'm just crazy.....Now I'm thinking of my 24' wheeled cruiser with a scythe carbon fork and some gears.....I must resist! Everytime I get on that thing it ends badly. There is usually lots of blood involved. I'm not 16 anymore and have forgotten the finesse necessary for jumping stuff.
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Old 03-13-08, 12:06 PM   #10
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I think I remember seeing an ebay auction for either a 45 or 47 sized, red, panasonic which basically had the top tube bent down at the seat tube last summer. It was definately a bike shop that had carried a few classics, I just can't remember their name.

I also remember seeing this.http://cgi.ebay.ca/Junior-Road-Coppi...QQcmdZViewItem
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Old 03-13-08, 12:11 PM   #11
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I've got am extremely small roadbike. I think it's an Atami. It uses 24" rims. I havent decided what to do with it yet.......On a slightly related topic. The frame was sitting next to my '90 Dyno bmx and they are pretty darn close. I wonder if the geometry could be made road worthy with a fork change? Probably not but I'll have to do some measuring just for the heck of it. I know it can take a really skinny 24" rim/tire combo. I think it would end up looking like a new rig with "compact" geometry and a sloping top tube.
Eh, maybe I'm just crazy.....Now I'm thinking of my 24' wheeled cruiser with a scythe carbon fork and some gears.....I must resist! Everytime I get on that thing it ends badly. There is usually lots of blood involved. I'm not 16 anymore and have forgotten the finesse necessary for jumping stuff.
Really? If you don't want those wheels, I could try them on the Sachs...what tyre size is on them?

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Old 03-13-08, 12:11 PM   #12
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I see those 24 inch wheel junior racers on ebay too...

some pretty nice and not expensive

then that macho 48 year old ego kicks in...

damn that macho ego stuff!!! :**
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Old 03-13-08, 12:11 PM   #13
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Yes, I think this would be the way to go for those really tiny bikes.

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Old 03-13-08, 12:13 PM   #14
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I see those 24 inch wheel junior racers on ebay too...

some pretty nice and not expensive

then that macho 48 year old ego kicks in...

damn that macho ego stuff!!! :**
Yeah, but you know, when you're looking for nice Italian steel, you're actually at an advantage!

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Old 03-13-08, 12:14 PM   #15
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Really? If you don't want those wheels, I could try them on the Sachs...what tyre size is on them?

East Hill

Sorry EH......They went to the scrapper along time ago. They were steel and fugly at that! There are other options though......
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Old 03-13-08, 12:19 PM   #16
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part of it is ... like that coppi..

my theoretical fit takes me to a 45c with a 50c top tube
so the juniors are going to have to be "built up" with longer stems
as opposed to shortening a 46 or 47 by using a shorter stem and having 700c wheels
and I get hesitant becuase I think parts will be a problem..

I haven't even seen a 24 junior in my area to test ride to see how it feels.
and I'm one of those craigslist and ebay trolls
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Old 03-13-08, 01:04 PM   #17
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part of it is ... like that coppi..

my theoretical fit takes me to a 45c with a 50c top tube
so the juniors are going to have to be "built up" with longer stems
as opposed to shortening a 46 or 47 by using a shorter stem and having 700c wheels
and I get hesitant becuase I think parts will be a problem..

I haven't even seen a 24 junior in my area to test ride to see how it feels.
and I'm one of those craigslist and ebay trolls
Where are you located?

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Sorry EH......They went to the scrapper along time ago. They were steel and fugly at that! There are other options though......
Well, when I come back from California with Mrs. Stringbreaker's mixte frame, stringbreaker, me, you, caterham, and whoever else is in the neighbourhood are having a mini BF meet and greet. Yes, the Sachs will be with me .

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Old 03-13-08, 01:15 PM   #18
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Well, when I come back from California with Mrs. Stringbreaker's mixte frame, stringbreaker, me, you, caterham, and whoever else is in the neighbourhood are having a mini BF meet and greet. Yes, the Sachs will be with me .

East Hill[/QUOTE]

Sounds good to me!
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Old 03-13-08, 02:07 PM   #19
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I'm in Sacramento Ca.
and who wouldn't love to see that Sachs?
there is a bike shop in Davis here that has an authentic
Serrota built Huffy 7-11 that probably is a 47. A lady who
acutally rode it in THEE TOUR traded it in and the store displays it
(not for sale, I tried) they even had the serial number traced.
I thru my leg over it and fell in love.
something to appreciate if your in the area
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Old 03-13-08, 02:11 PM   #20
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I'm in Sacramento Ca.
and who wouldn't love to see that Sachs?
there is a bike shop in Davis here that has an authentic
Serrota built Huffy 7-11 that probably is a 47. A lady who
acutally rode it in THEE TOUR traded it in and the store displays it
(not for sale, I tried) they even had the serial number traced.
I thru my leg over it and fell in love.
something to appreciate if your in the area
I'll be in California from around April 1 through April 7th...I'll be riding in the Cinderella Classic. We're going to have a few meet and greets, if you'd like to join us?

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Old 03-13-08, 02:25 PM   #21
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I just checked that out.. Alemeda right?
ladies only ride?
Thats about 100 miles from here.
I'll it on the calendar to ponder and see if
I can scare up a posse
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Old 03-13-08, 02:38 PM   #22
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I got a handbuilt 45 cm vintage Reynolds TALBOT frame. (top tube 50cm)
it's beautiful yellow colour complete with lugs and Suntour dropouts.

And surprisingly, it takes 700C front and rear wheels. (with no significant toe overlap)

It came with Superbe bb and cranks and pedals, vintage Cinelli stem and bars, and Campy Inter Brev. brakes and levers. All for $100!!!
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Old 03-13-08, 03:04 PM   #23
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/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

lol okay that was just cruel!!!
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Old 03-13-08, 08:15 PM   #24
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/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

lol okay that was just cruel!!!
Sounds as if we need to make a deal here ! What will it take for special k to part with the Talbot? Hmmm, BC is not that far from me, I'm heading down to the Bay Area soon.......

Anyway, it would be great to meet as many members as I can, especially with my special bike!

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Old 03-13-08, 08:16 PM   #25
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andre bertin junior racer ( est vintage @ approx 1982/83 )

http://www.bike123.com/used_bikes/us...ew.php?ID=1651


then there's this motobecane that would be too small even for east hill-

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