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Old 03-31-08, 11:21 PM   #1
cal2000
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<please help ID> vintage frame chrome, campy

Thanks for looking! I purchased this frame at a LBS to build up as a single speed. It was pretty beat up, but I loved the chrome lugs and dropouts. The owner of the shop told me he thought it was Italian, circa mid 1960s, possibly an Atala. I have had no luck verifying that, however I did see a photo of a Cinelli that had very similliar lugs.

Heres what I know... the BB shell is stamped with 22.5 on the left and right, and 7 in the center towards the front on the lug. The steering tube is also stamped with 22.5 and 7. The front and rear dropouts are Campagnolo. The BB is French threaded. If there was a serial number or any other markings, they have been sanded down or painted over.

Thanks in advance!

P.S. Dont worry, fresh paint is on the way. Ill post the after pics...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FrameSmall.JPG (29.5 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg Lugs.JPG (32.6 KB, 82 views)
File Type: jpg Lugs2.JPG (34.4 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg Lugs3.JPG (35.4 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg Lugs4.JPG (37.9 KB, 35 views)
File Type: jpg BB.JPG (26.5 KB, 34 views)

Last edited by cal2000; 06-09-08 at 06:08 PM. Reason: Photos no longer up on Flickr
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Old 04-01-08, 01:30 AM   #2
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'60s Atala is a good guess, but there were many other Italian makes from this period that used similar lugs and seat stay cap treatment (Olmo for one) I'd look for head badge holes and compare to badge archive pics...
But with a French BB? None of them would have done that...
is the steerer FR threaded, too?
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Old 04-01-08, 06:20 PM   #3
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I dunno...why would Italians express the frame size in inches?
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Old 04-01-08, 06:54 PM   #4
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I dunno...why would Italians express the frame size in inches?
Export market would be my guess - most of them were advertised in inches so why not mark them that way? Same thing with 27" wheels probably. I never heard of an Italian bike with a French BB though. What is the outside diameter of the tubing? If that is French too (is it 28.0mm? I forget) then I'd lean that way.
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Old 04-01-08, 10:59 PM   #5
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Thanks for the responses. I don't know about the steerer being French threaded or the size of the tubing, a lot of this is new to me. I'll get some answers and post them. Any ideas on the 7 stamped along with the size? I don't have the frame with me at the moment, but the holes for the head badge were offset (one higher than the other). I figured that was done by a previous owner, but could that be original, and if so does it tell us anything?
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Old 04-02-08, 08:17 AM   #6
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What makes you think that the bottom bracket is French threaded? Italian BB's are threaded the wrong way, too. If it's 70mm wide, it's Italian. Does the fork have a groove or a flat spot in the threads? A flat spot means it's French.
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Old 04-02-08, 09:56 AM   #7
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Atala Gran Prix had chome head lugs and stays, painted seat lugs so that might be
a clue. I'm not sure about it though, the Atala's Ive seen had more shaped head lugs and
seat lugs. . . Maybe older than 70's? maybe 60's Atalas had that configuration, I've never
seen one.
whatever it is, it's interesting

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Old 04-02-08, 10:28 AM   #8
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Dirtdrop, you may be right. It may be Italian, I was told it was French based on the direction of the threads. I didn't realize Italian bikes were threaded the same way. I'll measure it.
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Old 06-09-08, 05:42 PM   #9
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Here's an update. The bike is Italian, not French based on the bottom bracket size and standard size steerer. A friend found a nearly identical frame with the same 22.5 and 7 markings on the bottom bracket shell. His offered some more clues with MFN8978 stamped on the bottom bracket shell also, and R725538 on the seat tube. I'm not sure I'm searching the right places, but I haven't been able to learn anything from these numbers. I did notice on an early 70's Atala flier (on Classic Rendezvous) for distribution in the US, the frames were noted in inches with 22 1/2 being one of the available sizes. However, I don't know if Italian manufacturers commonly listed (and stamped) their frame sizes in inches around this time.

On another note, interestingly enough the cranks are French. They may very well have not been original with the frame, but it is curious that the BB cups, spindle and cranks fit an Italian bike but are French threaded. I had the threads re-tapped to 9/16s.

I'm almost done with the build and the bike is looking great. I'm two pedals and one hard to find freewheel away from posting the "after" pics. Again, thanks for looking.
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Old 06-09-08, 06:07 PM   #10
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One more thought, the seatpost is 26.2.
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Old 06-09-08, 06:24 PM   #11
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On another note, interestingly enough the cranks are French. They may very well have not been original with the frame, but it is curious that the BB cups, spindle and cranks fit an Italian bike but are French threaded. I had the threads re-tapped to 9/16s.
The cranks on my Bottecchia were like that too so I doubt that means anything.
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Old 06-16-08, 10:24 AM   #12
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As promised, the "after" pics...
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File Type: jpg Bike 2.jpg (74.4 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg Bike 1.jpg (73.7 KB, 27 views)
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Old 06-16-08, 10:50 AM   #13
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Wow! you've done a lovely job.. Now get over to Photobucket and get an account... upload some high res pics and then cut and past the img tag it provides into a post here to we can ogle some hi-res photos.
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Old 06-16-08, 12:46 PM   #14
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These are better...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27704928@N03/?saved=1
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Old 06-16-08, 02:00 PM   #15
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Old 06-16-08, 02:12 PM   #16
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Wow, sure turned out nice!
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Old 06-16-08, 02:18 PM   #17
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That's pretty!!
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