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  1. #1
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    <please help ID> vintage frame chrome, campy

    Thanks for looking! I purchased this frame at a LBS to build up as a single speed. It was pretty beat up, but I loved the chrome lugs and dropouts. The owner of the shop told me he thought it was Italian, circa mid 1960s, possibly an Atala. I have had no luck verifying that, however I did see a photo of a Cinelli that had very similliar lugs.

    Heres what I know... the BB shell is stamped with 22.5 on the left and right, and 7 in the center towards the front on the lug. The steering tube is also stamped with 22.5 and 7. The front and rear dropouts are Campagnolo. The BB is French threaded. If there was a serial number or any other markings, they have been sanded down or painted over.

    Thanks in advance!

    P.S. Dont worry, fresh paint is on the way. Ill post the after pics...
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    Last edited by cal2000; 06-09-08 at 06:08 PM. Reason: Photos no longer up on Flickr

  2. #2
    Stop reading my posts! unworthy1's Avatar
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    '60s Atala is a good guess, but there were many other Italian makes from this period that used similar lugs and seat stay cap treatment (Olmo for one) I'd look for head badge holes and compare to badge archive pics...
    But with a French BB? None of them would have done that...
    is the steerer FR threaded, too?

  3. #3
    juneeaa memba!
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    I dunno...why would Italians express the frame size in inches?

  4. #4
    Bottecchia fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by luker View Post
    I dunno...why would Italians express the frame size in inches?
    Export market would be my guess - most of them were advertised in inches so why not mark them that way? Same thing with 27" wheels probably. I never heard of an Italian bike with a French BB though. What is the outside diameter of the tubing? If that is French too (is it 28.0mm? I forget) then I'd lean that way.
    1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional, 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
    1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
    1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the responses. I don't know about the steerer being French threaded or the size of the tubing, a lot of this is new to me. I'll get some answers and post them. Any ideas on the 7 stamped along with the size? I don't have the frame with me at the moment, but the holes for the head badge were offset (one higher than the other). I figured that was done by a previous owner, but could that be original, and if so does it tell us anything?

  6. #6
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    What makes you think that the bottom bracket is French threaded? Italian BB's are threaded the wrong way, too. If it's 70mm wide, it's Italian. Does the fork have a groove or a flat spot in the threads? A flat spot means it's French.

  7. #7
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    Atala Gran Prix had chome head lugs and stays, painted seat lugs so that might be
    a clue. I'm not sure about it though, the Atala's Ive seen had more shaped head lugs and
    seat lugs. . . Maybe older than 70's? maybe 60's Atalas had that configuration, I've never
    seen one.
    whatever it is, it's interesting

    Marty
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  8. #8
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    Dirtdrop, you may be right. It may be Italian, I was told it was French based on the direction of the threads. I didn't realize Italian bikes were threaded the same way. I'll measure it.

  9. #9
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    Here's an update. The bike is Italian, not French based on the bottom bracket size and standard size steerer. A friend found a nearly identical frame with the same 22.5 and 7 markings on the bottom bracket shell. His offered some more clues with MFN8978 stamped on the bottom bracket shell also, and R725538 on the seat tube. I'm not sure I'm searching the right places, but I haven't been able to learn anything from these numbers. I did notice on an early 70's Atala flier (on Classic Rendezvous) for distribution in the US, the frames were noted in inches with 22 1/2 being one of the available sizes. However, I don't know if Italian manufacturers commonly listed (and stamped) their frame sizes in inches around this time.

    On another note, interestingly enough the cranks are French. They may very well have not been original with the frame, but it is curious that the BB cups, spindle and cranks fit an Italian bike but are French threaded. I had the threads re-tapped to 9/16s.

    I'm almost done with the build and the bike is looking great. I'm two pedals and one hard to find freewheel away from posting the "after" pics. Again, thanks for looking.

  10. #10
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    One more thought, the seatpost is 26.2.

  11. #11
    Bottecchia fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by cal2000 View Post
    On another note, interestingly enough the cranks are French. They may very well have not been original with the frame, but it is curious that the BB cups, spindle and cranks fit an Italian bike but are French threaded. I had the threads re-tapped to 9/16s.
    The cranks on my Bottecchia were like that too so I doubt that means anything.
    1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional, 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
    1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
    1974 Peugeot UO-8, 1988 Panasonic PT-3500, 2002 Bianchi Veloce, 2004 Bianchi Pista

  12. #12
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    As promised, the "after" pics...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    Wow! you've done a lovely job.. Now get over to Photobucket and get an account... upload some high res pics and then cut and past the img tag it provides into a post here to we can ogle some hi-res photos.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  14. #14
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  15. #15
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  16. #16
    Senior Member ollo_ollo's Avatar
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    Wow, sure turned out nice!
    visit my homebuilding blog: www.monoplanar.blogspot.com

  17. #17
    Decrepit Member Scooper's Avatar
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    That's pretty!!
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