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  1. #1
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    Vintage Supercourse

    So last week weakness overcame me and I won this auction on eBay:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWN:IT&ih=001

    I'm seeking advise as to how to build up this frame. I really like the look of the single speed 50's style club racer and perhaps I'll do a retro themed version of that with this frame...or, should I just restore it with vintage '70's parts and keep it authentic? Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    十人十色 Dawes-man's Avatar
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    Lovely frame! Nice price, too. It's a 1981 Raleigh Carlton Super Course.

    First, I'd find out what the original groupset would have been and go for that if I liked it. If I didn't, I'd fit it out with Campagnolo of the right period as a thank-you for staying NOS for so long. FWIW, I think it had some of the same components as my 1980'ish Dawes Atlantis, which has a Japanese SR crankset, SunTour PowerShifters (friction with ratchet). My Dawes had a SunTour Vx GT derailleur but I think your bike would have had a SunTour Cyclone - both are good derailleurs. Both the Dawes and your Raleigh had Weinmann brakes.

    However, it's your bike and you should do whatever you want. If you make it a single speed I would beg you not to grind off the droupout so that you, or whoever comes after you, can return it to its original purpose as a geared bike. I saw a beautiful candy-blue 3Rensho the other day that had been made into a fixed wheel but the owner had left everything - droupout, shifter braze-ons and cable guides. It was stunningly beautiful like that...

  3. #3
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    I'd date that earlier than '81; the bronze green color and decals puts it around '72 or '73. Take a look at this thread for info on original specs:

    Setting the record straight: Raleigh Super Course database (Need Pics!)

    I have found the Super Course to be a very versatile bike, and I've had similar era frames built up as single speeds, 3-speed commuters, and retro club bikes. You can get 700c wheels on them with fairly long reach brakes (originally it would have had 27" wheels). There wasn't anything particular special about the original components--to me the frame is the best part, so I say built it up as you think will suit you, ride that configuration for awhile, and then redo!

    Neal

  4. #4
    no one cares -holiday76's Avatar
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    looks almost exactly like the 72 supercourse i sold not long ago. I dont think that is an 81

  5. #5
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawes-man View Post
    Lovely frame! Nice price, too. It's a 1981 Raleigh Carlton Super Course.
    I can't help but ask: How did you arrive at this year?

    -Kurt

  6. #6
    十人十色 Dawes-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    I can't help but ask: How did you arrive at this year?

    -Kurt
    By un-joined up thinking... I should have said I thought it was a 1981.

    My twisted logic was pretty basic -
    My Dawes, from 1979 ~ 1982'ish has the same crankset.
    The Carlton factory closed in 1981
    An NOS frame was quite likely to have been left over from the upheaval of closing the factory.
    The price was really low and I figured low meant later.

    I'll crawl back into my corner now and try not to be seen.

  7. #7
    Lanky Lass East Hill's Avatar
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    Hello capricho, very nice catch you made there!

    Welcome to BikeForums .

    East Hill
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    TRY EMPATHY & HAVE LOVE IN YOUR HEART, PERHAPS I'LL SEE YOU ON THE ROAD...

  8. #8
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    Are you sure its an '81? It looks more like a '73 to me. Any way to verify this?

  9. #9
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    I vote mid-to-late 1970s, because the decals don't match the early 1970s Super Courses I have seen.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
    Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
    Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by capricho View Post
    Are you sure its an '81? It looks more like a '73 to me. Any way to verify this?
    I have an '80 or '81 and it looks nothing like yours. You have a 70's frame there.

  11. #11
    Chrome Freak Rabid Koala's Avatar
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    I'd say pre 74. I believe that is when they came out with the Mark IV designation.

    No matter, a very nice find at an outstanding price!
    1971 Paramount P-13 Chrome
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  12. #12
    Senior Member roseskunk's Avatar
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    yeah i'm super jealous. good find!

  13. #13
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    Thanks all you fellow Raleigh experts...I think I'll end up building up this frame with an internal 8 speed rear nexus hub with 27" wheels gumwall tires, sugino crankset, MKS pedals w/ leather clips, dynamo front hub w/ retro style halogen headlight, north road bar, shallacked cork grips, brass bell, stainless chain, stainless fenders, and a Brooks honey B67 saddle. This bike will be for recreational riding around town...How does that sound?

    Anyone who can assist with the seat post size appreciated..

    Capricho.

  14. #14
    十人十色 Dawes-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capricho View Post
    Thanks all you fellow Raleigh experts...I think I'll end up building up this frame with an internal 8 speed rear nexus hub with 27" wheels gumwall tires, sugino crankset, MKS pedals w/ leather clips, dynamo front hub w/ retro style halogen headlight, north road bar, shallacked cork grips, brass bell, stainless chain, stainless fenders, and a Brooks honey B67 saddle. This bike will be for recreational riding around town...How does that sound?

    Capricho.
    Sounds really nice to me! We'll want to see photos when it's up and running...

  15. #15
    shaken, not stirred. gnome's Avatar
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    Sounds good. remember to post pictures when you do build it up so that we can drool over it.
    Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. ~Mark Twain, "Taming the Bicycle"
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by capricho View Post
    Anyone who can assist with the seat post size appreciated..

    Capricho.
    I've sold a couple of those models, and iirc seatpost was 26.2mm. But then it might have been 26.4mm! Super Courses could also vary (or at least the 1971 models I've had did). Best to break out the calipers.

    Neal

  17. #17
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    Another forum member sent me a link to an early 70's Supercourse identical to the one I purchased. This bike went through a transformation similar to the one that I'll probably proceed with. I will more than likely use a north road bar (since I already own one) and a thumb shifter as opposed to the drop bars and the funky bar end shifter.

    I'll post pics when I start this project. The frame hasn't been delivered to me yet.

    http://readytoride.biz/?p=156

  18. #18
    1971 Professional SoFlaRaleigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawes-man View Post
    By un-joined up thinking... I should have said I thought it was a 1981.

    My twisted logic was pretty basic -
    My Dawes, from 1979 ~ 1982'ish has the same crankset.
    The Carlton factory closed in 1981
    An NOS frame was quite likely to have been left over from the upheaval of closing the factory.
    The price was really low and I figured low meant later.

    I'll crawl back into my corner now and try not to be seen.
    One thing is for sure. It is a 1973 or newer with the RALEIGH block lettering on the down tube. 1973 was the first year for that feature. Good luck with it. Jim

  19. #19
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawes-man View Post
    I'll crawl back into my corner now and try not to be seen.
    Don't feel bad! I was just curious as to how you got to it. Interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFlaRaleigh View Post
    One thing is for sure. It is a 1973 or newer with the RALEIGH block lettering on the down tube. 1973 was the first year for that feature. Good luck with it. Jim
    +1. The only '73s that didn't have this were the '73 (built from '72 frame overstock) gold S-22 Sports models - these wore the traditional Raleigh Sports downtube lettering similar to that of the 1950's machines.

    -Kurt

  20. #20
    1971 Professional SoFlaRaleigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post

    +1. The only '73s that didn't have this were the '73 (built from '72 frame overstock) gold S-22 Sports models - these wore the traditional Raleigh Sports downtube lettering similar to that of the 1950's machines.

    -Kurt
    That's interesting. Thanks. I have surmized that the first Raleigh Professional in 1969 had no Mark designation, the 1970 was Mark II, the 1971 was Mark III and those from 1972 on were designated as Mark IV's. Am I correct? Jim

    p.s. My experience is mostly limited to 1970 and 1971. I bought and sold 7 or 8 Professionals and Internationals in the early 1990's before I whittled it down to my one Professional.

  21. #21
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoFlaRaleigh View Post
    That's interesting. Thanks. I have surmized that the first Raleigh Professional in 1969 had no Mark designation, the 1970 was Mark II, the 1971 was Mark III and those from 1972 on were designated as Mark IV's. Am I correct? Jim
    I'm pretty sure you have it pegged, although the redesigned '77s were designated Mark V's.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoFlaRaleigh View Post
    p.s. My experience is mostly limited to 1970 and 1971. I bought and sold 7 or 8 Professionals and Internationals in the early 1990's before I whittled it down to my one Professional.
    You probably know more then I about Raleigh's road lineup. Unfortunately, my knowledge is primarily on the Sports models from the '50s into the '80s, with fuzzier-then-I-care-for knowledge about the early-to-mid '60s models.

    -Kurt

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoFlaRaleigh View Post
    That's interesting. Thanks. I have surmized that the first Raleigh Professional in 1969 had no Mark designation, the 1970 was Mark II, the 1971 was Mark III and those from 1972 on were designated as Mark IV's. Am I correct? Jim

    p.s. My experience is mostly limited to 1970 and 1971. I bought and sold 7 or 8 Professionals and Internationals in the early 1990's before I whittled it down to my one Professional.
    The Raleigh catalogs from that era are all available here: http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Retro-Raleighs/

    '69: Professional
    '70: Professional MKII
    '71: Professional MKIII
    '72: Professional MKIV

    Neal

  23. #23
    1971 Professional SoFlaRaleigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    .......... my knowledge is primarily on the Sports models from the '50s into the '80s, with fuzzier-then-I-care-for knowledge about the early-to-mid '60s models.

    -Kurt
    Cool. My wife has a 1970 Sprite 5-speed in Coffee Brown. In the family since new ($85.00), it is totally original with tires only replaced once. Jim
    Last edited by SoFlaRaleigh; 05-05-08 at 08:05 PM.

  24. #24
    1971 Professional SoFlaRaleigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
    The Raleigh catalogs from that era are all available here: http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Retro-Raleighs/

    '69: Professional
    '70: Professional MKII
    '71: Professional MKIII
    '72: Professional MKIV

    Neal
    Thanks. That's a great site for Raleigh enthusiasts. A couple of the examples featured on that site were in my modest collection at one time. Jim

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    In building up this frame, I will probably need a bottom bracket. I'm assuming none exists on the frame now. Do any of you Raleigh experts recommend a bottom bracket brand? I've heard of Phil Wood and may get that but I am clueless about which size will work.

    Thanks in advance..

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