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Old 05-05-08, 04:09 PM   #1
kpug505
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Sturmey Archer questions

I have a 700c rim that has a tcw 3-speed coaster hub in it. I hate it (shifts great, stop poorly). I have what appears to be a nearly new 1956 ab 3-speed drum brake hub that I would like to replace the tcw with..........
My questions are:
*Is this a good idea?
*Will the ab perform well in the braking department?
*I don't have the attaching hardware to the ab. I think I have the cable handled but do I need to attach the arm to the frame securely like a coaster brake arm? If so which stay?
*I have read I need to use anti rotation washers on the axle. If so do they need to be on both sides of the hub?
*Do I only need one per side?
*Which way should they be installed? Between the dropout and cone locknut facing outward or against the axle nut facing the dropout?
*And finally........Got pics of your setup? If so I'd love to see it!

Thanks in advance for advise given,
Kelly D
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Old 05-05-08, 04:44 PM   #2
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Quote:
*I have read I need to use anti rotation washers on the axle. If so do they need to be on both sides of the hub?
*Do I only need one per side?
*Which way should they be installed? Between the dropout and cone locknut facing outward or against the axle nut facing the dropout?
I won't attempt to answer you first questions, but the others:

*Yes, anti-rotation washers are a good idea
*Yes, one per side
*They're placed b/w the dropout and cone locknut facing outward.

Also, you should check the overall locknut to locknut dimension on the axle to make sure it fits well with the frame.
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Old 05-05-08, 05:13 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Antipodes View Post
You should check the overall locknut to locknut dimension on the axle to make sure it fits well with the frame.
Thanks! That reminds me of another question.
As far as the rear spacing is concerned. I planned on cold setting the frame. I read that I may need a longer axle because of dropout thickness being greater on a lot of road bikes compared to the frames these 3 speed hubs came on. Reason being.....Since the axles have flat sides you need to make sure you have tons of thread engagement so you don't strip the axle trying to tighten up the wheel. How much axle length should I have on the outside of the dropouts when the wheel is installed? Has anyone had issues with too short an axle then accidentally stripping the axle threads?

Thanks,
Kelly D
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Old 05-05-08, 05:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipodes View Post
I won't attempt to answer you first questions, but the others:

*Yes, anti-rotation washers are a good idea
*Yes, one per side
*They're placed b/w the dropout and cone locknut facing outward.

Also, you should check the overall locknut to locknut dimension on the axle to make sure it fits well with the frame.
Depends on the bike...mine are on the outside facing inwards due to spacing issues.

As far as the OP questions...

Possibly
More than likely
No clue, but it should be clear once the wheel is built up, the indicator chain goes on the right hand side
Absolutely and Yes
No pictures of mine...yet. I have an FG for my Dawes frame and multiple AW/AG hubs on my various Sports and Superbes and one Colt.

Let us know how it turns out. And I agree the TCW is a weak hub...I refer to it as a slowing device, my wife's Colt has one on it and I have run into the bushes at the end of the drive more than once using it...I am going to install a rear caliper brake on that bike...one of these days.

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Old 05-05-08, 06:47 PM   #5
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Here's a couple of shots of my SA. I use rim brakes. Mafac Competitions to be exact..





More shots here if you're interested:

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/560796524cQRWSB

It's one of the new hubs, but it installs just like the old ones
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Old 05-05-08, 07:41 PM   #6
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If you don't like the coaster brake, why not supplement it with a good caliper rim brake? (I assume you already have a front brake -- if not, that is your biggest problem.)
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Old 05-05-08, 11:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpug505 View Post
Thanks! That reminds me of another question.
As far as the rear spacing is concerned. I planned on cold setting the frame. I read that I may need a longer axle because of dropout thickness being greater on a lot of road bikes compared to the frames these 3 speed hubs came on. Reason being.....Since the axles have flat sides you need to make sure you have tons of thread engagement so you don't strip the axle trying to tighten up the wheel. How much axle length should I have on the outside of the dropouts when the wheel is installed? Has anyone had issues with too short an axle then accidentally stripping the axle threads?

Thanks,
Kelly D
I just realised that, for some silly reason, I told you the wrong thing in regards to the anti-rotation washers - they are placed between the axle locknut and the dropout. That is, unless you need to make up O.L.D. space - then you can place them on the inside (however, you will still need washers b/w the axle locknut, especially if the hub is going into a road frame, which has wider gaps in the dropouts than an English 3 speed). But as far as standard issue Raleighs and the like went, they were b/w locknut and dropout.
Now, to your other questions...
I fitted a SA 3 speed AW hub to an old Sekine road bike last year. Mind you, I laced the hub into a new rim with different axle spacing than per usual to reduce the dishing required.
I cold the set the frame down to something like 118 (as far as I can remember), which wasn't too hard. It works fine, but admittedly if I was doing it again, I'd be reconsidering the spacing that I setup, as there's barely enough axle protruding on the non-drive side - the locknut isn't down as afar as it should be. However, this had more to do with me respacing the axle than to do with the overall axle length, because there is plenty protruding on the drive side. I used the standard length AW axle, but apparently AWs and other SA hubs came in longer axle versions, but they are no where near as common. I can't remember what the lengths are. Maybe someone else here knows.
The thing is, the more you reduce the spacing, the harder it is to get a good chainline, because it obviously moves the cog further in.
And yes, it is very easy to strip the nut threads - because of the flat sides on the axle, you cannot apply anywhere near as much torque as you can to a standard hub axle. Be careful!
Good luck.

-Leigh
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Old 05-06-08, 12:51 AM   #8
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Here's a couple of photos of my AB as fitted to my Powepak equiped roadster. I can't take any better pictures at the moment because it is now too dark when I get home from work.

Brake Side
PIC00272.JPG


Drive Side
PIC00277.JPG
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Old 05-06-08, 09:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpug505 View Post
Has anyone had issues with too short an axle then accidentally stripping the axle threads?
I've not had the problem, but I've seen several axles that had the last 4-5 threads stripped off.
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Old 05-06-08, 09:32 AM   #10
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Thanks everyone for the helpful info.
Dirtdrop........I love that bike! Super clean with great style.
Gnome......Thanks for the pics. Now I know exactly how it all bolts up. I think I contacted you about that bike in the pic before. I'd really like to see some detailed shots of that powerpak as I have one lying around here somewhere........
Antipodes.......Thanks for all the insight. I have seen mention of axles in 2 lengths. The longer I believe is
6 1/4" IIRC. The TCW in my 700c sounds like it was set up very similar to yours. The axle protrudes further on the drive side as well. Mine is not dished correctly and sits off to the side ever so slightly. Barely enough to be noticeable but enough to be annoying to look at. That's another reason to yank the TCW!
Wahoonc.......Thanks for the advice! Can't wait for pics of your ride.
John E......Not to sound rude or anything but the point of the coaster brake was to get rid of rim brakes. I understand that for safety you should probably run a rim brake as back up and a front one at that but I kinda lurk on the wild side! Besides how many people the world over grew up on coaster brakes and still ride them to this day? Oh well.....It's a pointless point. The TCW is outa here.......

Thanks,
Kelly "Danger" Donovan
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Old 05-06-08, 12:55 PM   #11
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Here are some Powerpak pictures as requested.

PIC00273.JPGPIC00275.JPG
PIC00276.JPGPIC00280.JPG
PIC00278.JPG

Because I only have a single cable throttle lever, I can't use the decompressor at the bottom of the engine. It makes starting hard because I can't reach the lever to drop the motor onto the wheel from the seat, so I have to start from a standstill with the motor running on the tyre at full compression. Still it's good fun when it's going.
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Old 05-06-08, 02:17 PM   #12
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^^^Wow!^^^ That thing is gnarly! It is much tougher looking than mine is. How fast will it go? Is it a 2 stroke? Looks like tons of fun. Makes me want to pull mine out and see if I can get it to work. Thanks for the pics!
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Old 05-06-08, 06:27 PM   #13
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^^^Wow!^^^ That thing is gnarly! It is much tougher looking than mine is. How fast will it go? Is it a 2 stroke? Looks like tons of fun. Makes me want to pull mine out and see if I can get it to work. Thanks for the pics!
It is a fun thing (for about 10 - 15 Minutes run time) that sprays a nice cloud of two stroke smoke behind me. My engine and tyre are worn so once it gets warm and the tyre gets a bit soft, I'm pedalling a 10kg offset hunk of extra metal.

The fastest I've had the monster (all 48cc of it) up to was just over 50 kph (31 mph). That was with the engine at full noise and me pedalling like heck. Without pedal assistance it cruises at around 30ish kph - I don't have a speedo on the bike so have to judge by how fast the traffic passes me.
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