Charles Wahl

I bought this frame via CraigsList, cheap because it has a crack in the left rear dropout, just ahead of the raised face. They're Simplex dropouts, of a type that I've never seen before: it looks like there's a captured nut in a hole.



But back to the crack -- it extends over the top of the lower web, but hasn't broken all the way through yet. Is it possible to weld this, or would that not work, or deform the dropout?

I suppose that if the dropout has to be replaced, I should just replace the pair, right?

And then paint them, since rechroming where the whole rear end is chromed might be difficult or impossible?

Any relevant experience appreciated. More photos, larger, of the frame here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/1317574...7618665496465/

CV-6 

I would think, and this is totally without any experience, that the crack could be welded. Whether you do it that way or not would depend on your ultimate plans for the frame. Just a rider or restore it to its "original" condition? Of course the best way would be to replace it. That chrome rear triangle looks killer. Hope you have the oddball front derailleur that it needs.

cudak888 

Do you have a better photo? I'm supposing that it might be possible to silver-solder the crack from the inside of the dropout. Shouldn't require any refinishing if it is possible/done right.

-Kurt

Charles Wahl

I would like to use it as a rider; I'm not into wall bikes (all mine are on the floor!). And no, I've never seen a derailer with a mount like that. Anybody know what derailer or fixture it takes?
I've tried several times -- it's awfully hard to see stuff in the chrome. The crack is visible in the picture I posted, and there's a larger version on the Flickr set. I can feel it clearly with a fingernail, on both the inside and outside, over the bottom web just ahead of the face.

cudak888 

I see it. Chancy one. I'd ask the framebuilding forum, but I'd be curious if one could run a sliver of brass (with such a crack, I wouldn't use silver) down the crack if the area was slit open with a narrow dremel cut.

-Kurt

unworthy1

Yes, it can be repaired, but the repair may change the profile a bit. That sort of cracking is sort of common with the short Campy dropouts, and Bernie Mikkelsen grinds out the crack with a 'V' cross section and fills it with Tig weld material, then grinds that into a presentable shape. The 'trapped nut' in that dropout is a simple black plastic plug that fits the hole and has threads thru it...it takes a Simplex derailleur, but the hanger can be tapped for standard.
Edit" Oh. looks like yours is already tapped, a regular Simplex DO would not be threaded. The TiG welding will ruin the chrome plating (but a *good* welder can confine the damage to a very small area) but if it's done right it should be stronger than new.

cudak888 

No chance that he could fill the same spot in brass? Just curious, as the brass can be polished out to a reasonably neutral bright finish.

-Kurt

unworthy1

I can't speak for Bernie, but I'd guess that brass is not strong enough for a crack repair in that spot. He's the frame builder and that's how he does it (YRMV). He used to charge about $65 for that repair a few years back, just FYI.

CV-6 

It is a Simplex. I have seen them from time to time on the Bay. I did a quick search of the net looking for a photo and came up empty. Could also be labeled Spidel.

dbakl

The chrome would need to be removed in the area of the repair, no matter how it was done. Except SuperGlue and duct tape...

dbakl

Do you know if he's back at work? I heard there were some health issues awhile ago. When I disassembled my Arbos I discovered it has a cracked seatstay at the drop out needing an expert repair. He's close to me; now, if I only had the money! Fortunately, the chrome is already trashed, so losing it will be no big deal.

Charles Wahl

According to T-Mar (kindly consulting his 1984, and giving me the component specs) it was a Simplex A442. I'm going to ask the seller if he has it still, since it's unlikely he could have used it for anything else. He must have set it up as a fixed/SS most recently, because it has the small chainwheel mounted on the outside of the spider.

Charles Wahl

I could live with that -- replacing two dropouts would be much more invasive, and sacrifice even more chrome. And from what little I know of the plating process, it would not be possible to re-dip just the dropout area, and have new chrome overlap the original. So I imagine the best I can do is get a repair that disturbs chrome in as small an area as possible, and live with paint there; silver or blue.

unworthy1

[QUOTE=dbakl;6761501]Do you know if he's back at work? I heard there were some health issues awhile ago. QUOTE]

Far as I know he's back at the torch, but I haven't had any work done by him since his untimely stroke. I sure hope he's made a complete recovery cause he's a tremendous resource. (and just between you and me: I never discuss anything concerning politics with him that's how we have to go to get along)

Charles Wahl

Here's the repair, as performed by Chelsea Bicycles on 26th St in NYC:



The crack was right through the web connecting the dropout to the chainstay, just in front of the dropout face. I think that they did a very nice job; however most of the chrome is gone on the upper part of the dropout, both sides, and also a bit at the rear end of the chainstay.

Finishing-wise, I'm inclined to simply have it clear-coated, rather than painting it silver or some other color. What do y'all think? More photos here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/1317574...7609327747621/

unworthy1

very nice job, frankly nicer than Bernie did on mine (but he's fast and cheap) this is nearly invisible. Personally, I'd use paint cause it always seems that clear-coating raw steel quickly disappoints: rust forms under the clear.

CV-6 

Impressive job. Cannnot wait to see the finished bike.

unterhausen

was that a tig repair? I could almost trying silver, but I'd be afraid it would crack again

jebensch

Looks great Charles - I still can't believe you found that hairline in the first place! Is close dropout inspection standard practice for you when you're checking out used goods? I wouldn't have found that crack until I was wheel-less and sparking down a hill in the park.

Charles Wahl

Yes, it was TIG (or so I was told).

C'mon, Jesse -- you've forgotten the story of this one already?! This was the $30 frame in Nyack, and the seller was gentleman enough to sell it cheap because he knew the DO was cracked. Otherwise, I'd have already eaten dirt on it!

JRT

Re: the missing chrome. You can purchase a brush on plating outfit that will apply Cobalt. This should match OK. Applying Chromium is simply too toxic for DIY. It is possible that you could find shop that offered this service.

Re: the derailleur. Dropout looks something like this:

https://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c..._2026_19729480

The mounting hole has threads which means that it is intended for one of the most recent Simplex derailleurs that has a mounting bolt like a Campy rather than the older ones that use a plain hole (no threads) and the bolt goes in from the back and threads into the derailleur rather than the dropout.

IIUC, this would work:

https://velo-orange.com/si440de.html

jebensch

I remembered the Nyack part, but not the 30 dollars and admonishment. It looks great...can't wait to see it built up!

Charles Wahl

After reading unworthy1's advice, I'm thinking now that a zinc-rich primer, with silver color over is the simplest solution. What little I know about plating tells me that there's no easy way to partially rechrome something. And the whole frame is chromed, with the main tubes painted over that -- durable, but hard to repair!
I know what derailer the rear needs: an SLJ 6600, the slant-parallelogram version of what you posted. And I already found and have the front derailer, which is what I was asking about earlier in the thread. I don't know how long I'll have to wait for the rear, though; they seem to be rare. I'll just have to use a Cyclone or something in the meantime.