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  1. #1
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    C&V derailer shifting videos

    Just thought I'd post a few links to some videos I made this morning detailing the geometry of various vintage RD's (plus a Shimano 600 tri-color). Interesting to watch, if you're not familiar with one or more of the derailers showcased:

    Campagnolo Nuovo Record:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDEv51xzBZ4

    Campagnolo Gran Sport (1961):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpfq-foI930

    EDIT: New additions:

    Campagnolo Victory S3:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_2brsGuqhQ&feature=user

    Suntour Accushift Alpha 4050:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8r9_IV73CY#

    Shimano 600 (6401) Tri-Color:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_asALJ3qMA

    -Kurt
    Last edited by cudak888; 05-31-08 at 02:25 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lamplight's Avatar
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    Very nice, thanks for posting. I don't normally get to see the derailleur from this angle as I'm always the one turning the cranks, but it's strangly relaxing to watch that little mechanical device pivoting and moving about. Maybe I should make a video of my Cyclone derailleur.

  3. #3
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    As a 1960 Gran Sport and 1980 NR owner, I enjoyed contrasting the two in action.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
    Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
    Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
    Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

  4. #4
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    Now lets see the Suntour do it faster and cleaner

  5. #5
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John E View Post
    As a 1960 Gran Sport and 1980 NR owner, I enjoyed contrasting the two in action.
    You will soon have a Campagnolo Victory S3, Suntour Accushift Alpha 4050, and a Shimano 600 (6401) to watch and compare as well.

    -Kurt

  6. #6
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoreFeet View Post
    Now lets see the Suntour do it faster and cleaner
    You'll get your wish

    I also need to do the Suntour Cyclone 7000 and the Huret Allvit , which I did not record today, but have ready and waiting in the shed.

    -Kurt

  7. #7
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    I'd like to see a Simplex Super LJ for comparison.

    No, I don't have one to send you.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Lamplight's Avatar
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    Newer Suntour Cyclone:

    http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...t=DSCN0253.flv

    2006 Campy Centaur:

    http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...t=DSCN0252.flv

    The Centaur is obviously faster and more precise, but it's not nearly as fun to watch as the old stuff.

  9. #9
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtdrop View Post
    I'd like to see a Simplex Super LJ for comparison.
    Put your bike on a stand next to a nice white background, your video camera on a small tripod next to the derailer, and two florescent lights wherever you feel best to create the right lighting. Videotape it, upload it into Windows Movie Maker, and post it

    -Kurt

  10. #10
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamplight View Post
    Newer Suntour Cyclone:
    Looks like I started a trend . Nice to see the shifting action of the Centaur - sounds a lot more sturdy and accurate then the older Shimano "briferized" groups (see my Shimano 600 video for an example of that).

    Got any more to show us?

    -Kurt

    P.S.: Added the three other videos.

  11. #11
    Glutton for Punishment
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    Can't wait to see the sparks fly in the Allvit vid!

  12. #12
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mswantak View Post
    Can't wait to see the sparks fly in the Allvit vid!
    From the chain and freewheel, or from the C&V crowd?

    The Allvit would be on the Schwinn Continental though - essentially stock w/Atom FW, except for a new Z chain which really doesn't suit the drivetrain.

    -Kurt

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    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    Put your bike on a stand next to a nice white background, your video camera on a small tripod next to the derailer, and two florescent lights wherever you feel best to create the right lighting. Videotape it, upload it into Windows Movie Maker, and post it

    -Kurt
    I've got everything but the derailer. It didn't mean that I wouldn't send you mine. I really don't have one. I've wanted the slant parallelogram Aerodynamic model for a long time, but I don't want to pay $100 for it.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Lamplight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    Looks like I started a trend . Nice to see the shifting action of the Centaur - sounds a lot more sturdy and accurate then the older Shimano "briferized" groups (see my Shimano 600 video for an example of that).

    Got any more to show us?

    -Kurt

    P.S.: Added the three other videos.
    The Centaur does quite well, but it's never as quiet as I would like. That's something the video doesn't pick up very well. But the shifting is very smooth and quick. I have others I could show, but to be honest they would be pretty boring compared to the ones posted so far. I have some late '80s Chorus parts that would be cool to see, but they're not currently on a bike.

  15. #15
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    What's interesting to me is how much smoother that Gran Sport is than the Nuovo Record. It's quite noticeable. Did they make a significant change in the geometry for the NR?

    The SunTour Cyclone seems to be very smooth as well, though I think Lamplight's videos are at a slower RPM than Kurt's, so it's a bit hard to compare.

    Obviously that new Campagnolo seems to be the very smoothest of all.

    Nice to see that! Thanks guys!

    Karl

  16. #16
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtdrop View Post
    I've got everything but the derailer. It didn't mean that I wouldn't send you mine. I really don't have one. I've wanted the slant parallelogram Aerodynamic model for a long time, but I don't want to pay $100 for it.
    Sorry to hear that - I was hoping you were one of the lucky fellows to own one.

    -Kurt

  17. #17
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karmat View Post
    What's interesting to me is how much smoother that Gran Sport is than the Nuovo Record. It's quite noticeable. Did they make a significant change in the geometry for the NR?
    The NR parallelogram sits a tad farther forward then the Gran Sport, and the pivot was moved from the center (center as measured between pulley wheel centers) to just behind and below the front pulley.

    Funny thing that you mention it though, as I always thought the Shimano UG freewheels quite smoother then the other offerings, including the less-common SRAM freewheel (which is what the GS is running with) that has V-shaped teeth.

    Two other things:

    #1: The return spring is hellishly strong - to the point where I have considered swapping it with a spare from a Nuovo Gran Sport (essentially the same spring as an NR). I have to periodically tighten the right lever when riding, and it must be kept as tight as one's fingers will allow it, or it will slip. I can't even put grease of any kind on that lever or the parallelogram will pull back.

    #2: As the derailer has limited travel, and I wanted the capabilities of the next-to-largest cog (I couldn't re-space for my original 5-speed cluster because of the Phil Wood hubs), I routed the cable on the wrong side of the fixing bolt to allow the derailer to take up that last bit of travel. I don't know if it was the spring that prevented it from traveling any further or just the general angle of the cable, but I found that the stock mounting would not effectively bottom-out the derailer with the adjusting screw set for max inboard travel.

    -Kurt

  18. #18
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    #1: The return spring is hellishly strong - to the point where I have considered swapping it with a spare from a Nuovo Gran Sport (essentially the same spring as an NR). I have to periodically tighten the right lever when riding, and it must be kept as tight as one's fingers will allow it, or it will slip. I can't even put grease of any kind on that lever or the parallelogram will pull back.
    I've noticed that the spring on NR front deraileurs is overly strong as well. Unless your shifters are really tight it will pull in when running over rough bumps.

    Karl

  19. #19
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karmat View Post
    I've noticed that the spring on NR front deraileurs is overly strong as well. Unless your shifters are really tight it will pull in when running over rough bumps.

    Karl
    NR return springs are nothing in comparison to the spring on this Gran Sport. You'd have to feel the spring action to believe it. About 5 times as stiff as a GS.

    -Kurt

  20. #20
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    I had an old bronze Record that shifted much smoother than the Nuovo Record that I replaced it with. The Record was heavy and out of place on a '74 frame, but I wish I hadn't sold it.

  21. #21
    Disraeli Gears Charles Wahl's Avatar
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    Re the Simplex SLJ (6600, I presume)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtdrop View Post
    I've got everything but the derailer. It didn't mean that I wouldn't send you mine. I really don't have one. I've wanted the slant parallelogram Aerodynamic model for a long time, but I don't want to pay $100 for it.
    I've read in a couple places that this derailer was not very robust. Have I heard wrong? It's the OE for the Motobecane that just found me (though I don't have it, either).

  22. #22
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Forgive me for digging up one of my age-old threads, but I figured I'd mention the release of one new video. Didn't think it was important enough to start a new thread with:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=7uX_5FWk3TI

    -Kurt

  23. #23
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
    Re the Simplex SLJ (6600, I presume)



    I've read in a couple places that this derailer was not very robust. Have I heard wrong? It's the OE for the Motobecane that just found me (though I don't have it, either).
    Really? I hadn't heard that. Nothing about it looks delicate to me. I just acquired one and installed it on my Gitane. It's probably the same one you have since it's badged Motobecane. I haven't had a chance to ride it yet. I couldn't resist installing it right after some surgery on my knee Tuesday when I was supposed to be staying off my feet. I just noticed that I'm leaving a trail of blood all over the house, so I think I'll start following doctor's orders.

    I haven't been able to ride the black Peugeot, either.

    The Motobecane-badged FD that came with can't be an SLJ because it has steel arms. I was going to post a picture in the hope that someone could identify it, but that's going to have to wait for a few days.

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