Charles Wahl

I have (perhaps foolishly) bid on this eBay auction
Raleigh Competition Frame + Fork reynolds 531
The "Competition" logo on the top tube looks suspicious to me. Also, on reflection, it seems unlikely that a Raleigh USA bike would have Reynolds 531C tubing (I believe that's what the decal is).

The frame looks to be off-white, with gray head tube and seat and chainstays. I've seen a few Raleigh USAs (nice ones) with chrome instead of gray.

Has someone tarted up a lower-end frame? Seller should know better; that looks like a bike shop in the background. I've asked for the serial number, but seller has not responded.

USAZorro

Tough to tell, but the color, the lettering on the seat tube, and the style of the stays and cable guides on the top tube all appear plausible. If you get the serial number, it will help a lot. I'd presume mid-late 80's.

T-Mar

It's hard to say. Like yourself, I'm used to seeing chromed stays, fork and headbadge, but there is evidence of chrome on the stays, so maybe it's just a repaint for the grey. There are lots of other little things that don't match up (i.e. model name font, top tube decal, crown style, etc.) but these could be variations based on the year or maybe it's an entire repaint.

The thing is that all the Raleigh USA mid-range frames from the mid 1980s appear to be the same, with the bicycles differening only in component selection. They all used the same tubing and the geometry appears identical. I don't believe it is a disguised sportl/ower level frame, as they typically did not have any chrome and employed stem shifters. This frame clearly has chrome and appears to have downtube shifter bosses, as opposed to cable stops

As for the tubing, the mid-1980s Racing USA frames typically used Raleigh 555SL tubing which was made in Japan, reportedly by Tange. Lots of people legitimately believe it was Reynolds based on the similarity of the decal style and Raleigh's corporate ties with Reynolds. If it is a repaint, or simply a case of a destroyed decal, the owner may have innocently applied a Reynolds decal in the belief that it was Reynolds tubing. A replacement Raleigh 555SL decal would certainly have been harder to obtain. The one thing that may verify the tubeset would be the seat post diameter. Tange tubesets typically used a smaller, 26.8mm post because the seat tubes were not single butted like Reynolds.

As suggested by USA Zorro, knowing the serial number may help. It would allow us to establish the year and that may help with some of the variations. Hopefully, someone with a better knowledge of these frames will post.

Lamplight

It looks like a nice frame, whether or not it's a real Competition. It's only up to $50 so far, and in my opinion it looks to be a frame well worth $50 regardless. I wouldn't fret over it too much.

Charles Wahl

S/N is 5LR0177, takes a 26.6 seatpost according to seller. I think that rules out Reynolds 531 double-butted tubing, as the seller advertises; correct?

Otis

26.6 post does not rule out 531 DB tubeset. The rest I cannot comment on.

dbakl

I'm not sure why that would be necessarily true. My 62 Carlton took a 26.8 seatpost, and the 60 I built just took a 26.4; both full 531 butted. Certainly the older bikes were all over the place. 27. and 27.2 not uncommon either.

infinityeye

my 84 raleigh comp. took a 26.8 seat post, but was Raleigh 555sl tubing.

Charles Wahl

I'm perplexed by the reported variation in seatpost sizes. I thought that through the middle 80s, when the bike being discussed, for instance, was constructed, that bikes with a Reynolds 531C tubeset (I believe that the auction photo shows a 531C decal on the seat tube) generally took a 27.2 seatpost: [28.6 - (2*0.56) - 0.28 clearance I reckon] for the seat end of the tube, which was only butted at the bottom bracket end (I thought), typically. Are there double-butted 531 seat tubes, or were these used in earlier years? I can't find a reference explicitly for 531C or the 80s, but the 1978 catalog at Mark Bulgier's site
Look here
suggests that this would be standard. A 1977 Reynolds brochure on Robert Broderick's Gallery pages supports this:
and look here

Now, the bike in question is a 62 cm, and it might be that with the longer tube, the tubeset might have come with a double-butted seat tube (though that's not supported by the link above). But I'm not aware that anyone has posted on this forum who claims to have a Raleigh USA bike that has Reynolds 531C tubing, and stickers to that effect. I've only seen the 555/575 variants reported in threads here.

I did find the 1985 Raleigh USA catalog on Sheldon Brown's site, which shows a Competition model very like the auction frame: "Pearl" color, gray stays seem to be pictured in the tiny image of it.
https://www.retroraleighs.com/catalogs/1985/pages/1.html
If you look at the catalog closely, the (mis)information is full of discrepancies. The blurb on the page says the frames are either Reynolds 753 or Raleigh 555T DB "manganese-molybdenum" (I think that 555T was actually used on the "touring" and "sport touring" bikes), while the blurb on the Grand Prix says DB Raleigh 555SL Chrome-moly. The blurb on the "custom frames" says Reynolds 753 or Raleigh 555RSL "manganese-molybdium". That page doesn't actually tell what tubing is used on the Prestige and Comp models. And going to the specs page
https://www.retroraleighs.com/catalogs/1985/specs.html
both the Prestige and the Competition list 555SL chrome-moly tubing. No 531 in sight.

I apologize to anyone who finds the above to be pathetically picayune, not to say picaresque.

retyred

Don't you have a Raleigh Gran Course,1985 with 531c tubing? What size seatpost does it use? I looked at the seatpost on my 1984 Gran Course but the markings are chewed up. Could be a 27.0 or 27.2.

Charles Wahl

Actually, my Gran Course is an '84 frame too, and yes, it has 531C tubeset with 27.2 mm seatpost. I also have a 1982 Trek with 531C tubeset, and the same size seatpost -- and it's a tallish (62 cm) frame.

spider-man

What make of dropouts are on the alleged Competition?

T-Mar

Reynolds did make different gauges of 531 but a model with Reynolds 531C should take a 27.2mm post. Tange tubesets typically take 26.8mm, so a 26.6mm points towards a Japanese frame. The serial number suggests a 1985 production date and therefore a 1985 or 1986 model, in which case it should not be a Derby model. However, the format does not match those that typically turn up for this period. The Japanese frames that I've seen all started with an N while the Taiwanese frames started with an M. It also does match the format for English models. Obviously, Raleigh had multiple suppliers.

However, the post size is close enough for it to be Raleigh 555SL. In which case, it doesn't matter if it is a Competition or another model in the mid-range series, as they all appeared to use the same frame.

Spiderman, knowing the dropouts is irrelevant as the seller mentions that one broke and both were replaced.

retyred

Hmmm... Do you think that this frame has been treated to a "decal upgrade"? I started a thread on this topic last August and got three posts.

T-Mar

Could be, it's been at least partially repainted and may have been fully repainted, necessitating new decals.

I forgot to mention in my previous post that I do have specs, but no picture, for the 1985 Competition. It was also made with Raleigh 555SL tubing.

ricohman

Is there anything wrong with the 555SL tubing?
I would understand that its not Reynolds quality, but is it decent tubing?

USAZorro

555SL is, from all accounts I've heard, really good stuff. Considering that T.I. was the umbrella over both Raleigh and Reynolds, I'm not surprised.

Charles Wahl

Well, thank you all -- quite a bit of discussion for a "wounded" mid-level frame that's sitting at $50 with a few hours to go. I, as the (only) bidder, could take it or leave it; so I will tell you that my max. is $57 -- I like the number 7. If anyone here really wants to rub salt in, they could bid $56!

Charles Wahl

Having "won" the auction, I'm in a bit of a delicate negotiation with the seller, for better photos of repairs, and some assurance of condition. Video footage, as they say at 11.

dougb

My 1986 super course was made from 531 tubing and uses a 27.2 seat post.

cudak888 

A thousand apologies for bumping this, but I figured I'd set the record straight. This is an '86 Competition, and the top tube decal is as one would expect from an '86 model.

I'll see if I have a TT photo of my '86 Grand Prix that shows the same uninspired font - either that, or I'll see if Quickdraw (the present owner) can photograph it.

P.S.: Original '86 color would have been a white main triangle with light grey stays, fork and headtube.

-Kurt

Charles Wahl

I have absolutely no doubts that cudak888 is right. I've since seen one or two of these on eBay, with the same graphics. The fade on the lettering might have looked good on the showroom floor, but with fading and wear, the scheme just looks bad now. The frame wasn't the lightest one, but it was definitely a full DB job, and most probably Reynolds 531C, like the decal said. Frame wasn't repainted, was an original scheme that I found in a catalog on RetroRaleighs.

BTW, I traded this frame to BF member Long deKlein, in a deal for his orange Falcon-from-the-dump frame of earlier vintage. No, no, it's not an Eddy Falcon, but I'm going to treat it well.