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  1. #1
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    Mystery 60's Italian Bike (Rossin ?)

    I got this from from eBay (was listed in the eBay & CL thread). It was advertised as an 80's Rossin. I could tell it was older, wasn't even sure if it was Italian. I just received it. It has an Italian Campagnolo bottom bracket, cranks, headset, shifters and rear derailleur which I assume are original parts. It has Universal Mod 61 brakes, Suntour front der (I assume replacement), 27" wheels Rigida rims, Normandy and Maillard hubs. Stem and bars are Ambrosio.

    The frame has what looks like Nervex lugs, Campagnolo dropouts, serial number 66A0164 stamped on the seattube. The bottom bracket shell is stamped 55, it also has a line of what looks like extra brazing, no cutouts.

    First, any ideas what the frame could be? I see two holes on the head tube that look like headbadge holes. I have not seen any Rossin with a headbadge. Second, any idea what year? The serial number could perhaps indicate 1966? The steel Record derailleur is older than any I have seen, and the cranks have no date code.

    Last, it came with a badly fitting 26.0 Japanese seatpost. This was clearly too small, and the seat lug was misformed. It looks like a 26.8 may be a good fit. Any ideas on how to re-shape this area without any further damage?







    Last edited by MetinUz; 06-30-08 at 11:16 PM. Reason: Added stem and bars.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Torchy McFlux's Avatar
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    That's a lovely old bike. Shame the previous owner didn't show it more respect.
    Are you sure the rear wheel is 27"? The front one looks like it is, but the brake set up makes the rear wheel look like a 700c.

  3. #3
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    Judicious use of a large flat screwdriver with some inner tube wrapped around it should be a good tool to help open up the clamp so the slit look uniform in width. If you have a crappy seatpost between 26.0 and 26.8 I would use that to work it a bit. Finish the job with emery paper to clean up and burs and rough edges.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  4. #4
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    Looks like a nice quality 60's Italian bike. It's not going to be Rossin, but maybe a Lygie, Olmo, or similar. I would post it on the CR mailing list. It definitely looks like one worth doing a proper resto on though. Nice score.

  5. #5
    feros ferio John E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otis View Post
    Looks like a nice quality 60's Italian bike. It's not going to be Rossin, but maybe a Lygie, Olmo, or similar. I would post it on the CR mailing list. It definitely looks like one worth doing a proper resto on though. Nice score.
    I concur on all counts. I cannot tell for sure from the picture, but the chainring BCD appears to be the old school 151mm. In 1967, Campagnolo switched to 144mm to accommodate the increasingly popular 42-tooth inner chainring. I am guessing Olmo, simply because so many of them were imported into the U.S.

    You may be able to narrow the pedigree search by finding out which Italian manufacturers stamped the serial number into the top of the seat tube, where Capo (Austria) and Allegro (Switzerland) did.
    Last edited by John E; 07-01-08 at 09:10 AM.
    "Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
    Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
    Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
    Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
    Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069

  6. #6
    Senior Member Pogliaghi's Avatar
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    Not common for Italian builders to use Nervex Pro lug set although I think Masi did. This is not a Masi though. Definitely dates from early 60s - derailleur hanger has the hole for the Sport derailleur. Remove the fork and see if there are any marks on the steerer. Would love to see another photo of that fork crown. If it did not have an Italian threaded BB I would say there was a possibility that it is Swiss. Whatever it is a nice frame!

  7. #7
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    You got a nice 80's bike...The fork crown suggests that it is a much older vintage.

  8. #8
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    I have some more pictures in

    http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x320/metin_uz/rossin

    Here is a shot of the fork crown:


  9. #9
    Stop reading my posts! unworthy1's Avatar
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    That's a beauty, wish I knew what it is but given the Nervex, Campy and chrome forkcrown it's clearly a top model of something (Olmo, Atala, Grandis...?). Clean up that rusty chrome and wax the paint...maybe somebody on the CL list can ID it.

  10. #10
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    I see that serial number starts with "66" which, if it were 1966 would be perfectly consistent with the date of the components as far as I can tell. I'd say it's a 1966 Something. Very pretty frame, no doubt. Great find!

    Karl

  11. #11
    Senior Member Pogliaghi's Avatar
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    Definitely 60s with that dr hanger - you also have the Record (pre Nuovo Record) crank - does it have pedal lip - I suspect not. 1966 would work as a date. Universal Mod. 61 are exactly that around 1961 and superceded by Universal Mod. 68s in 1968 or so. I can also see reinforcement tangs on the fork blades. Nice quality bike. I have and early 70s Grandis and I am pretty sure it is not that. Have yet to see an Atala, Legnano, or any of the mass imported Italian bikes with that combination of features. It is higher end and probably comes from one of the many smaller boutique builders. Does the seat tube have a sleave? Get Record front derailleur, Campy seatpost and Brooks B17 and you will complete the bike!

  12. #12
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
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    That steel derailleur has sold on Ebay, in non-rusted condition, in the $$ thousands in the past.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pogliaghi View Post
    Definitely 60s with that dr hanger - you also have the Record (pre Nuovo Record) crank - does it have pedal lip - I suspect not. 1966 would work as a date. Universal Mod. 61 are exactly that around 1961 and superceded by Universal Mod. 68s in 1968 or so. I can also see reinforcement tangs on the fork blades. Nice quality bike. I have and early 70s Grandis and I am pretty sure it is not that. Have yet to see an Atala, Legnano, or any of the mass imported Italian bikes with that combination of features. It is higher end and probably comes from one of the many smaller boutique builders. Does the seat tube have a sleave? Get Record front derailleur, Campy seatpost and Brooks B17 and you will complete the bike!
    I like the neat treatment of the rear dropout, nice chroming on the pressure faces.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
    That steel derailleur has sold on Ebay, in non-rusted condition, in the $$ thousands in the past.

    Really? I didn't think the Record derailleur was that valuable. Are you confusing it with the early version of the Gran Sport?

  15. #15
    vjp
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    Quote Originally Posted by retyred View Post
    Really? I didn't think the Record derailleur was that valuable. Are you confusing it with the early version of the Gran Sport?
    Yeah, it was the GS

  16. #16
    Senior Member Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
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    My guess is a Maino. Their identifying mark was the triple plate fork crown. I can rule out almost all of the other guesses made by others. Maino even used the image of the triple plate crown in their advertising.
    Last edited by Citoyen du Monde; 07-09-08 at 05:38 PM.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vjp View Post
    Yeah, it was the GS
    I don't follow it closely, but I think both the original GS and the original Record have gone quite high, over the past 5 years. I don't have the details, however, so can't really argue it. Both were in much better shape than this one.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
    That steel derailleur has sold on Ebay, in non-rusted condition, in the $$ thousands in the past.
    Answers like this are what urban legends are made of. This also explains why you often get people offering up derailleurs at totally ludicrous prices on CL or Ebay.

    I can guarantee that no Campagnolo Record steel derailleur has ever hit a 4 digit US dollar price. They tend to go for about $100 when in good shape, with a mint one perhaps going for up to about $250.

    The model that has hit prices in the thousands is the Gran Sport. It must however be pointed out that the large majority of Gran Sport derailleurs will not even breach $100. The ones worth big bucks are those of the first two production years. Both of these two years will normally be in the 4 digit range, however by year three the price drops by a factor of 10.
    Last edited by Citoyen du Monde; 07-09-08 at 06:55 PM.

  19. #19
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citoyen du Monde View Post
    Answers like this are what urban legends are made of. Thsi also explains why you often get people offering up derailleurs at totally ludicrous prices on CL or Ebay.
    ^
    A big +1 to everything said in CdM's post.

    -Kurt

    P.S.: Anyone interested in a decent Record parallelogram? Only $350.

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