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  1. #1
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    Look what karmat scored! (story and photos)

    There is a story here. Skip it if you just want the pics. I saw this badly posted ad on Craigslist and almost didn't look at it, but then I thought, "ah why not see what it is". It was posted as "peugeot 15speed racing bike" which I knew wasn't right. The only description read "very nice road twice attached tire pump and foot holders." So I looked at the horrible photos and could see immediately the back of the Ideale saddle. So that was worth checking in to. And then I could barely make out what looked like a Super Champion sticker on the wheel. It could be Mavic... either way, it's not chromed steel. And its vintage. And the black lugs with the spear points... clearly not Aztec lugs, so higher end frame. This might really be something! I could tell it was too small for me, but you gotta check these things out, you know. It's kind of far from me (40 mins drive) but who knows?

    I called the number and got a kid on the phone. He was probably 12 or 13. I asked if the bike pictured was his bike, he said it was his grandma's bike but he was selling it--and yes the photos were of the bike itself (not like Pastor Bob's fraudulent person). I asked if he could give me some more details and he said he didn't know anything else but could tell me about it if I had questions. I asked if the rear triangle was chrome. "The what?" "Sorry, is the back of the bike frame chromed back by the rear wheel?" He wrote that down. I asked what it said on the back of the seat. And what was labeled on the sticker on the wheel. He said "Call me back in 30 minutes". So I did. Sure enough... chromed rear triangle. "The seat says EYE-dale or something and the wheel says Super Champion." So I say "Can I come and look at it right now?" He checks with his dad and they agree to meet me in 1 hour at the grandmother's place up in the hills in Washington.

    I drive up there. Traffic is bad. They had told me they had to leave about 30 mins after I planned to arrive. But with traffic, and then getting lost twice I was barely there 5 mins before they had to leave. I get there and no one is around at first. I see the bike sitting out by an RV under a barn roof. I call out... nobody around. So I start to go up to the house when the dad shows up. He says, "I'm sorry the bike is already sold. We didn't know my mom already sold it. It's right there, you see you don't want it anyway. The tires are bad and the tape is coming off. It's not a very nice bike. I don't know maybe she'd sell it to you." So that was a bad start.

    "So wait a minute, I spent about $15 getting up here, and an hour and a half in the car." Just as I'm saying that, this unpleasant older lady comes out of the house. "It's sold, I got a guy coming up from Eugene on Friday to look at it. I got some other guy wants to come from Salem." So the dad says, "Well, why don't you look at it, if you don't want it then it doesn't matter anyway." I already knew what it was from first sight. So I look it over. It hasn't been ridden in a long time but it isn't rusty and hasn't been outside. I say, "well I do want it. I have the cash right here." So the nasty old lady says in her 50 years of smoking voice, "How much is it because I could have sold this bike for $200 if I wanted." Which is true, but she didn't ask that for it. So I say, "$125 just like that ad said and Jesse (the kid) said on the phone." She hemms and haws over it for awhile. I'm feeling kind of bad because I wouldn't want to be the guy coming up from Eugene. He made arrangements and now it'll be sold out from under him if she accepts. That would be a bummer. I would be mad if it were me. But then, I did drop everything and drive right up there immediately, spent money, and time, and didn't wan to go home empty handed. Finally she says, "Alright, give me the money." So I count it out in front of her and then she proceeds to count it again, like I had played some slight of hand trick. She scrutinizes the $5 bill. "Say, you don't want those other bikes do you?" She points at a nasty old kids' mountain bike and a rusty department store 10 speed. "No thanks, I only have one bike rack." I beat a hasty retreat.

    More in next posting.

  2. #2
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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  3. #3
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
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    Hope she at least calls the guy from Eugene. But I would have handled it the same way you did. Good score.

  4. #4
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    So here's the skinny from what I know of it so far. It's equipped as follows:

    • Full 531 frame, stays, and fork
    • Ideale 42 saddle (hard!! needs much love)
    • Stronglight 49D cranks
    • MAFAC Competition brakes
    • Simplex delrin derailleurs
    • SunTour Bar-Con shifters
    • Pivo stem
    • Stronglight Competition headset
    • New Star hubs
    • Super Champion clincher rims
    • Pelissier skewers
    • butted spokes (triangle marking... don't know who that is)
    • Lyotard pedals with alloy cages
    • Christophe toe clips and straps


    I'm fairly certain the wheels are replacements. It should have Normandy Competition hubs with Mavic tubulars. But these are nice wheels for sure. They have an odd thing that I haven't seen on other Super Champions, though. They have a stippling in the brake surface. Never seen that on alloys before. I'm certain the shifters are replacements, too, as Peugeot didn't ship bar cons that I know of.

    I'm having trouble dating it exactly. The serial number starts with "2" but I don't think it's a 1972. The weird thing is the combo of full 531 frame, Stronglight 49 cranks, and the lugs. I'm guessing 1973... so maybe 1972 frame built up in 1973 for sale. Any clues appreciated. I've been through all miamijim's catalogs and the ones on Peugeot show.

    Karl

  5. #5
    Chrome Freak Rabid Koala's Avatar
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    Very nice find! Looks like it will clean up nicely.

    BTW- I have a Simplex Criterium like that on my Gitane TdF. It shifts very nicely. I thought I would want to replace it, but it is working well.
    1971 Paramount P-13 Chrome
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  6. #6
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbonamici View Post
    Hope she at least calls the guy from Eugene. But I would have handled it the same way you did. Good score.
    Thanks! Yeah, I was kind of torn about it, but I decided I had acted in good faith, gone up there to buy it and it wasn't my fault that this happened. Plus, maybe that guy wouldn't have shown up either. Who knows!

    Karl

  7. #7
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
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    Hey it's not your fault they can't communicate with eachother. I have had that same thing happen to me "well my room mate sold it early today and I didn't know". I mean WTF!? people, where is your integrity. Lucky for you, you are not the guy from Eugene. Don't feel bad it's the sellers who are the jask***** here.

    Nice score... so about the single super champion you have... I also have a single and I wouldn't mind making it a pair....
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  8. #8
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabid Koala View Post
    Very nice find! Looks like it will clean up nicely.
    Thanks! Yeah, all that corrosion is surface-only.

    BTW- I have a Simplex Criterium like that on my Gitane TdF. It shifts very nicely. I thought I would want to replace it, but it is working well.
    I haven't run one in a loooong time... the one on my UO-8 was trashed so I never got to try it out. the last time I used one was on my Dad's Peugeot as a kid. My other Peugeot has a newer Simplex. I''ll try out the Criterium. It can't have been as bad as some people say because Simplex made them for a long time and sold a LOT of them to manufacturers who would know better. Longevity might be an issue... but they are a lot of them still around!

    Karl

  9. #9
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    Very nice find. What is the full serial no? The 49D cranks are unusual and one would expect to find them on the PR10. My 1972 PX10 has the 93 cranks. Serial no. is 2120793. Also came with a Brooks saddle and Mafac Racers. I have a 1974 PR10 with the Ideale Model 30 saddle. Your Peugeot is the PX10 model. I enjoyed your story because I have had similar experiences in the pursuit of some of my vintage finds. I just drove 320 miles last week to grab a 1960 Allegro that had other interested buyers. Anyway you've got a great Peugeot at a good price.

  10. #10
    Viscount viscount's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karmat View Post
    Thanks! Yeah, all that corrosion is surface-only.



    I haven't run one in a loooong time... the one on my UO-8 was trashed so I never got to try it out. the last time I used one was on my Dad's Peugeot as a kid. My other Peugeot has a newer Simplex. I''ll try out the Criterium. It can't have been as bad as some people say because Simplex made them for a long time and sold a LOT of them to manufacturers who would know better. Longevity might be an issue... but they are a lot of them still around!

    Karl
    Hey Karl, and you is telling me I always find the cool stuff?
    Nice one for you
    Tell us the rest later.

  11. #11
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Karl, nice find!!! Bikes like that never show up in my market. Unless you can find difinitive date codes the best you'll be able to do on the date is '70-'73. In reality it doesnt matter much as the bike were vituraly identical.

    John..remember the Peugeot we were discussing? Looking at this one you can see why I was sceptical. I may have an idea as to model of that bike....I'll E-mail/PM you some pics.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  12. #12
    Senior Member due ruote's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karmat View Post
    Thanks! Yeah, I was kind of torn about it, but I decided I had acted in good faith, gone up there to buy it and it wasn't my fault that this happened. Plus, maybe that guy wouldn't have shown up either. Who knows!

    Karl
    True, but since you know the seller isn't reliable, why not just stick a post on CL saying the bike was sold? You can do it without a reply email so you don't get hassled over it.

  13. #13
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbonamici View Post
    True, but since you know the seller isn't reliable, why not just stick a post on CL saying the bike was sold? You can do it without a reply email so you don't get hassled over it.
    EXCELLENT idea. Done.

    Karl
    Last edited by karmat; 07-03-08 at 12:00 PM.

  14. #14
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    A little more story and answer to a question.

    So I got lost on the way there. Drove right past the road I was supposed to take. This was in the country and there was no one around. I was really running late because of traffic. I was turning around in a side road after driving like 4 miles too far. I wasn't sure what to do and then this car comes over the hill and I flag them down. Old couple in their 70's I'd say. I ask about the road. The guy thinks for a minute and says, "yeah that's back that way," pointing. I thank him and he turns off in that direction. I turn around, and head that way after him. I catch up after a min or two and just drive along, looking at all the road signs. I don't see it. I'm nervous because the time is ticking before these people have to leave. I'm agitated, but I have no cell phone service in the area so I can't call and tell them I'm lost. I drive on for a couple more miles. Seems like forever. Still no road. Then the guy I has asked for directions slows down really slow. At first I'm wondering if he's going to turn off. Just as I'm passing it, I realize what I thought was a driveway is actually a road. And it's the right one. I flash lights, give him two beeps on the horn and turn off. Phew! If that guy hadn't come along... no PX-10 for me.

    So the full S/N is: 2727599

    I still haven't found any PX-10 in that time frame with 49D cranks. But it was major boom timeif it is a '72 and perhaps they couldn't get enough supply of 93s. It could be that the wheels, which are totally age appropriate, were also original for the same reason. I don't know.

    Also, the spoke heads have a heart on them, not a triangle. Anyone know who that is?

    Karl
    Last edited by karmat; 07-03-08 at 12:25 PM.

  15. #15
    Stop reading my posts! unworthy1's Avatar
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    good story, nice bike: Karmat done good!
    I don't think I've seen that spoke head design before, it's a new one to me. Show us a pic when you can...

  16. #16
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by viscount View Post
    Hey Karl, and you is telling me I always find the cool stuff?
    Nice one for you
    Tell us the rest later.
    Hehe, finally. It's no Thanet, but I'm happy with my score. Now if only it were my size.

    Karl

  17. #17
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    Started cleaning it up a bit this evening and those Stronglight cranks really take a polishing well. I'll post cleanup pics as I move it along.

    Karl

  18. #18
    Disraeli Gears Charles Wahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karmat View Post
    Thanks! Yeah, I was kind of torn about it, but I decided I had acted in good faith, gone up there to buy it and it wasn't my fault that this happened. Plus, maybe that guy wouldn't have shown up either. Who knows!
    You have nothing to feel guilty about. The guy from Eugene could have showed up, just like you did. Or he might have been one of those CL deadbeats who call and offer, but don't show. Cigarette lady got your money, you got the PX-10, the kid has a good story for school, and there are lots of PX-10s for the guy from Eugene. He probably wanted to convert it to fixed anyway! Outcome: basically Providential.

  19. #19
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    Karl, if the guilt becomes overwhelming, feel free to send that bike on to me! I guarantee that'll cost you far less than professional therapy.

    Neal

  20. #20
    Senior Member mazdaspeed's Avatar
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    That's how I got my voyageur, some kid posted a craigslist ad asking $100 for it so I met him in a dollar store parking lot 75 miles away from me, handed him the cash, and left. Apparently his mom wanted the bike out of his room.. lol

  21. #21
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
    Karl, if the guilt becomes overwhelming, feel free to send that bike on to me! I guarantee that'll cost you far less than professional therapy.

    Neal
    Thanks Neal, I appreciate you being concerned for my pocketbook.

    Karl

  22. #22
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    Thanks also, Charles, et al. You guys made me feel better. I was already cool with it, but now, well, it seems pretty much everyone would have done the same thing. Now I'm cleaning this thing up. Was gone over the weekend and will be in Canada this week so I'm going to be slow off the mark. The cranks have cleaned up beautifully, though. Photos when I return!

  23. #23
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    That's a great find-- the kind of find I only read about...


  24. #24
    Vintage French Bike Fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Order View Post
    That's a great find-- the kind of find I only read about...

    Well, until weds, me too.

    So, I took the front tire off the rim this evening. I don't think this bike has been ridden since it was nearly new. The tires are Wolbers and the inner tube (still holds air!) on the front tire was a Hutchinson (Made in France!). When was the last time you saw a tube made in France? Wheels take forever to clean up. But I got started on the rim. Unfortunately I'm leaving town in the morning so I won't have much more time to work on it before I leave.

    I also pulled one of the pedals to start cleaning it. These are seriously light, despite some steel and chrome fittings. I had no idea. They are substantially wider than the MKS Sylvan Road pedals I have on my bench and they seem about the same weight. I'd have to find a good scale to tell for sure. Lyotard apparently knew what they were doing.

    Karl

  25. #25
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    I just picked up a '72 PX10 also. I knew about this bike hanging in a large garage with some other bikes and old cars for a year but didn't know beans about PX10's until just recently. When I read on some forum about these bikes I went back and found the guy mowing his yard. I stopped, got out and asked if he still had the white bike hanging in the garage. He did and we got it down and stared at if for 10 or so minutes. Finally I asked what he would take for it. He said he would take 50 bucks so I gave him the money and put it gently in my truck and off I went.

    The bike is in good, not great, condition and looks to be all original. I did put 25 dollars into getting both wheels trued at the local bike shop. There is chipping and scratches here and there and all the chrome and metal is dull. The cables are shot and I will need new ones if I keep it. I think the tires are even the original and they hold air. The guy that owned it said he bought it in '72 for his kids and they hated it so he hung it in the garage all these years.

    I also just scored a Schwinn Chrome Voyager off Craigs list for $60 that is in fair to good shape. If I can find decals I plan to remove the clear coat.

    You guys might think I am on a roll but the bike I really want will always alude me. I guess I am going to have to pay through the nose for my dream Chrome Paramount. I just missed one of those on Craigs for $900.

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