LongarmBiker

I took one of my mixtes on a group ride yesterday. It's an 80's Univega and a very nice riding bike. Twelve speeds and lots of alloy for an 80's bike. But I digress. A few eybrows were unkindly raised at my "old" bike. In defending the old girl I couldn't decided if she's a classic or vintage. So is there a difference? What makes a bike classic or vintage? Enquiring minds need to know so I can stand up for my rides. LAB

Kommisar89

LOL...you'll never get a definitive answer to that question as everyone has their own idea about that. And it wouldn't really matter to the kind of guys raising their eyebrows at it. Unless it's a modern carbon fiber bike they won't like it. Anyway, we've discussed this topic ad nauseum on this forum and the best I think we could agree on is that most anything older than the early 90's falls into the classic and vintage category, maybe a little newer even for mountain bikes. My personal definition, accepted primarily by myself is nice European bikes from around 84-92 fall into the classic category and nice European bikes and Schwinn Paramounts from 83 and before fall into the vintage category while most anything pre-war falls into the antique category. And I grandfather in entry level Eurpean bikes and some Schwinns from around 75 and earlier before they started using Japanese components. And I allow Japanese bikes only on a case by case basis if they are really nice. Others would disagree with me, some vehemently (especially if they own Japanese bikes ).

cb400bill

Generally, 25 years and older equals vintage. Classic is harder to categorize. I think a high quality level needs to be there to be classic. And it would not have to be 25 years old to be classic. I think a mid 90's Paramount can be considered classic. As well as most Waterford bikes.

LongarmBiker

Soooo . . . My 73 Peugeot UO18 is vintage, my two 80's Univega aren't worth the Reynolds steel they are made of and my 83 Nishiki is just plain worthless. Hmmm . . . I'll go with the Peugeot being vintage but I think my Japanese bikes will all be labeled classics. LAB

Bionicycle

I think to me, “Classic” denotes a design that is unique, desirable, and has stood the test of time. Even if it is manufactured of modern material…
Where as “Vintage” can mean something of a desirable era, or by gone age, but while “Vintage” may be very desirable, because of it’s age, it may still be rather commonplace in design.
To me a Mixte is a “Classic” design, even if was manufactured last week… But, a Mixte made in 1948 would be “Vintage”, while still being “Classic” design.
A modern Carbon Frame Road Bike, may incorporate design elements of a “Classic” diamond frame track bike, but won’t be “Vintage” until the current production run ends, and may someday be looked back upon as desirable… Just my thoughts…

clas·sic

clas·sic [klássik]
adj
1. top quality: generally considered to be of the highest quality or lasting value, especially in the arts
2. definitive: authoritative and perfect as a standard of its kind
a classic example of mixed metaphor English
3. always fashionable: always fashionable and elegant, usually because of simplicity and restraint in style
the classic “little black dress”
4. generally accepted: conforming to generally accepted principles or methods
5. extremely and usually comically apropos: apropos to an extreme degree, usually with a comical or ironic twist (informal)


vin·tage

vin·tage [víntij]
n (plural vin·tag·es)
1. wine production year: the year in which the grapes used in making a particular wine were harvested
2. wine from a particular year: wine made from a particular harvest of grapes
3. grape harvesting: the harvesting of grapes for wine
4. wine: a wine, especially an excellent one
5. period: the period of time when something appeared or began, or when somebody was born or flourished
Depression-vintage furniture
6. group sharing characteristics: a group of people or things that are similar or belong to the same period of time (informal)

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Kommisar89

LOL...exactly! See, you understand the Kommisar system of classic and vintage bicycle classification already. Like I said, some will disagree...but like beauty it's all in the eye of the beholder. If you like your Univegas and your Nishiki that's all that matters. I have an 88 Panasonic too...I don't consider it classic or vintage - just a nice, practical old bike that gets me to work everyday.

Think of it like the analogy of riding a Harely vs. riding a Honda Shadow. Some would argue that the Honda is cheaper, more reliable, faster, and looks just as good. And I would argue, so what? You don't ride cruiser motorcycles for their cost, reliability, or speed, and while looks are important, you really ride them to be cool (otherwise you'd be riding something far more practicle than a cruiser). And cool is spelled H-A-R-L-E-Y--D-A-V-I-D-S-O-N (or maybe Orange County Choppers or Big Dog Cycles or something but not Honda, Yamaha, or Suzuki).

USAZorro

I wouldn't sweat it. Just about anything that's more than a few years old gets discussed in here.

fwiw - I have gotten eyebrows raised on club rides. Doesn't matter if it's the old Fuji, the Bob Jackson I rode last year, the Trek, or the new Long Haul trucker. I'm just a general non-conformist, but it is fun going past people on a bike that weighs 5-10 pounds more than theirs.

LongarmBiker

I guess I'm doomed to be a non conformist. My non cycling friends all ready think I'm a bit different because I'm a full time bike commuter. Not only do I have my fleet of Mixtes, I have a Long Haul Trucker that I love. It's the bike that set me on the path of collecting and riding steel bikes. I will confess, I do ride a 20-speed full carbon road bike too. It's my dirty little secret, but a sweet, sweet ride.

It's good to know that my mixties are a classic design, but I already knew that! They are all just cool old bikes that I ride with pride wherever I go. I actually get a kick from the bike snobs. I just wish I was strong enough to pass them. But being an old fart I can't keep up with the young pups. But I do sometimes manage to catch them at the next light. LAB

grayloon

Maybe the forum name needs to be changed to "Used and Old Bike". Certainly, the restrictive definition of Classic leaves a lot of good bikes out in the cold. Seems a lot of us find those bikes to have desirable qualities worthy of saving, even though they don't enter that rarefied air of the Paramount or Italian made bikes.

Kommisar89

At least you're an honest person. I love reading those posts by those guys that claim they can pass the local racers on their 15-lb carbon fiber bikes while riding their 40-lb Schwinn in cut-off shorts and tennis shoes.

Kommisar89

So true. Hope everybody realizes I'm just pulling your legs with my "unique" definition of classic and vintage.

I think I was imprinted for life by the period I grew up in - I got my first "good" bike at 12 years old, an entry level Italian steed with all the chrome and flashy paint job and even a few Campagnolo bits. At that time "Made in Japan" was still pretty much understood to mean cheap junk much as many people think of "Made in China" today. I aspired to a "rarefied" high-end Italian bike but it wasn't in my budget. Then just about the time quality Japanese bikes and components started to really hit the market in numbers, I got a car and went off to college and didn't pay any attention to cycling for 10 years. When I awoke from my Rip van Winkle-esque non-cycling period and got back on a bike in the early 90's, the Campy vs. Shimano war was over, Shimano had won but Campy had survived and the dollar to yen exchange rate had pretty much pushed the Japanese bikes out of the market. Most (certainly not all but the majority) of the Japanese bikes I see are fine bikes but lack in aesthetics compared to an equivelant European bike and just don't turn me on.

Figure if you are either 5-10 years younger than me and grew up during the Japanese bike period of the 80's or you at least continued riding through that period and got more exposure to those bikes you probably have a lot more feeling for them than I would.

grayloon

I bought my first "10 speed" at 20 back in 1970. It was an ugly green Bridgestone and was sold by Foley's, a big department store similar to Macy's (which bought out Foley's and changed the name a few years ago) Since, I haven't looked back, except for a short detour with a Schwinn Le Tour mixte for my wife, all my bikes have been Jap bikes...never had the money for the Italians.

I keep hoping to one day discover that Campy equipped bike of dreams at a garage sale or on c.list and snap it up quickly. But, no cigar. Wonder if I could get Ken Starr to send me Clinton's magical cigar, might change my luck.

Kommisar89

I had this ugly brown "10-speed" with 26" wheels from Maison Blanche (now Dillard's) and then a standard 27" wheeled Sears Free Spirit from around '70 - '74. Boat anchors. I longed for a Raleigh Record or Grand Prix or something like that. It was $145. There was a red and yellow one at the LBS just waiting for me. When I had saved up my pennies in 1974 and went to the LBS, the salesman talked me into this gorgeous blue Bottecchia with all the chrome for $175. I rode it until I got into an accident with a tow truck around 1996 and didn't buy another new bike until I got a mountain bike around 2001 so I guess I got my money's worth. Still don't have an all Campy NR bike but my current Bottecchia is close enough.

txvintage

I wonder which of the new bikes will be considered desireable in 20 years or so.

I'm still waiting to see a carbon fiber bike spontaneously combust, hasn't happened yet, but how will they fatigue/age over the years?

I'm kind of surprised at the value holding ability of the early Cannondales. Who would have ever thought when they were new they would still have a niche all these years later.

The great irony of the world will be when the 2008 Wal-Mart NEXT is highly sought after in 2028 simply becuase they have a 6 month life expectancy before finding their way to to the scrap heap, there for rendering them "rare", if not all together desireable.

Squeazel

NM

<<removed snarky comment about Harley's>>

grayloon

I've wondered about the CF bikes too...never ridden one, but they've been around for a while now. Just don't see any of the earlier models for sale, or don't look. As for the NEXT, at my son's college, it seems to be the campus bike of choice...cheap and no loss if someone 'borrows' it.