dubesor

I'd like to protect this bike beyond my current $10 U-Lock from Canadian Tire solution. It's worth maybe $300 on paper, but has become very dear to me. The last time I got attached like this and the bike got jacked, it was losing family.

Anyway, I've been thinking of comboing up a mini U-lock (perhaps minievo?) and a sturdy chain.

Do any of the top manufacturers still offer some form of insurance with their locks? That would give me piece of mind, especially given lack of tenant insurance.

Blue Order

Yes, Kryptonite offers insurance, but you have to be meticulous about following their procedure from the day you buy the lock (there's a time limit on registering with them once you buy the lock).

I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S., you can get renter's insurance to cover theft of household items, including bikes. It's probably easier to make a claim on your renter's insurance than on the policy that comes with your lock.

Finally, I'd ditch the $10 lock and get something hefty from Kryptonite or an equivalent-- preferably something like the New York Fahgettaboudit U-lock or chain lock, or both.

Finally, you should learn good locking technique from Sheldon.

Good luck!

dubesor

That's good advice. I have read Sheldon's article in the past and try to follow it - he has some great tips.

As for heavy-duty chain, I'm looking for a solution that doesn't absolutely require carrying a bag or pannier

I.E. a mini ulock can go into the tob tube protector thingy or my pockets w/ a medium type cable/chain lock rapped around the TT too?

treebound 

Don't rely upon the insurance as insurance per se since getting a settlement usually requires you to still have the broken lock to show proof that the lock either failed or was compromised. With that said I do look at the insurance offered as sort of an indication of the company's willingness to stand behind their product. I like the Kryptonite locks and if you're in a high theft area then I'd suggest getting the strongest one you can, and probably several different sizes depending upon where you need to lock the bike up at. Back it up with a cable and a chain if you're in a really bad area.

phillyrider

You may want to hit the commuters forum because many of these folks have good insight. General rule of thumb in an urban area is to never leave your bike out overnight or even in apartment hallways (doors tend to get left open by drunk people). If it's dear to you, then inside is best.

U-locks quote that they cover loss, but you need to produce evidence that the lock was broken, registration required, and receipts for bike necessary. There are a bunch of pitfalls with this. Commuter forum has much discussion on this. I don't think loss coverage is of much value, but others may have better experiences.

I do street park and often work late. I use a u-lock, a regular lock, and two thick cables (one through seat/back wheel and another through front wheel). Thin cables are useless. Although not proven, the assumption is that a lowlife usually doesn't carry necessary tools to break two different locks/cables combos. Visible locations are preferred - for once, smokers are your friends. If a thief wants it, they will be able to jack it regardless - best you can do is make it difficult for them.

Again - if you search or post on the commuter forum, you'll likely get some good suggestions.
Lock combos are probably your best bet. It doesn't take much to remove a set of wheels.

Good luck...

dubesor

Do receipts need to be produced for tenant insurance claims as well? Obviously can't get receipts on craigslist buys in $ three figures.

alanbikehouston

Insurance does not replace a bike. It MIGHT give you a small amount of money...the current "used" value of the bike, minus any deductible the applies to the insurance. For many older bikes, that means the insurance payment would be close to nothing.

The insurance company does their math this way: "Current used value of the bike...$200....your deductible...$500....payment to you...zero."

If you have a bike you are emotionally attached to, you can NOT leave it out of your sight, no matter how good your locks may be. Any lock can be broken if a crook has the skills, tools, and time. If you must leave a bike out of your sight, get a beater bike that looks like junk, but that rides great. Put a five pound u-lock around the rear wheel and a steel post set in concrete. Use a two pound u-lock to attach the front wheel to the downtube.

Blue Order

Whenever you buy a bike, even from craigslist, you should ask for a sales receipt to be drawn up. It's evidence of ownership. If you don't have a sales receipt, repair receipts can serve as evidence of ownership, as can photographs. If you need an estimate of the value of your bike, you can get one from your LBS. Make a file and keep all of these records in the file in case you need to make a claim and/or claim your bike from the police if it's recovered.

CACycling

I had a bike stolen out of my garage (wife left it open) and my insurance company asked for itemized list. I had a check for the total replacement cost less deductible (carried a $250 deductible at the time and coincidentally had $250 worth of stuff attached to the bike, which was also covered, so actually got value of a new bike) in less than a week and didn't need to produce any receipts.

Blue Order

This raises an important point-- the lock insurance can be used as a supplement to renter's insurance to cover the cost of your renter's deductible.

wahoonc

That is the exception rather than the rule! Of all the bikes I have had stolen over the years I have never received anything close to a reasonable payout. In fact the last 4 that were stolen together were required to be covered under a separate rider by the a**hole insurance company, but the "forgot" to tell me bicycles and tools stored in unattached garages were not covered under the main policy when they renewed it. After that break in I promptly "renewed" my policies with an different insurance company


Aaron

RobbieTunes

A lot of bike lock "guarantees" refer to the deductible only. They generally will pay what "other insurance" doesn't, which is the deductible.

A deductible is the amount of loss you do not transfer to the insurance company. Simply put, a $1000 loss with a $250 deductible is $750. Coverage for the loss starts at $250.01. Low deductibles are proven to result in frequent claims, so the premium is much higher. High deductibles result in fewer claims, and show that the customer accepts responsibility for smaller losses. Premium is much lower. I've never met a person who liked his/her deductible, but if there were no deductibles, there'd be no insurance coverage for a lot of stuff.

Homeowner's policies are available for renters, and are pretty cheap. It always amazes me how much people think their stuff is worth, but they won't pay $100 a year to insure it. Or, they don't bother to lock it up. If a bike is so valuable, what was it doing unprotected?

A first party bike claim (theft) is generally handled by small claims adjusters. They have access to databases and the web, and few are bike-savvy, but all are computer-savvy. Most that I've seen are presented by the owner with an inflated value to try and overcome the deductible, which is often about the value of the bike, but the person making the claim feels like the deductible shouldn't apply. That's natural. It's human nature to want more vs. less, and even to lie about it. That's why adjusters have jobs.

When a person with a $500 or $1000 deductible files a claim for a $2500 bike (claimed), it will get looked at closely. I've seen Trek 1000's claimed for more than that.

The easiest way to get paid fairly for your bike is to be straight up, and advise exactly the make, model, and components on the bike. Understand the deductible is the part of the loss you have to handle yourself, and you'll be fine. Very often, policies are replacement cost, and you get the price of a new, similar bike, with tax, less your deductible. If you registered your lock and have copies of all the paperwork, you'll get that deductible back.

With C&V bikes, it gets more complicated, but it doesn't have to be. In those cases, list the make, model, and components, but also prepare a list of the generics, i.e. "chrome-moly steel lugged frame, double-butted," etc. This will help to determine the replacement cost of a new model. If I was handling a claim for a bike that may be worth $800 and the owner presents a $1500 bike as an example, and tells me his bike really wasn't that nice, I'm much more likely to give him $900 because I perceive he's being honest.

I've used LickBike quotes to replace a stolen vintage Cinelli, for example, in which case the owner was to be paid for a new, similarly equipped Cinelli frame, about double what the stolen bike was worth. It's just the way it works out. The policy required an "actual cash value" payment up front, which was the bike's market value (1800). The owner was entitled to the full $3600 replacement cost if he'd have replaced the bike, but did not get the bike replaced in kind. He bought a carbon fiber bike for $2500 and was paid for that. His decision, and he was OK with that. As a C&V'er, I'd have ordered the new Cinelli (in red, with Campy....)

Liability claims, as in getting hit by a car, etc, are different. Statutes require "actual cash value" or "fair market value." On C&V bikes, you're only going to get the market value, so the bike owner needs to do some homework, and it's a lot easier now with the web. Find similar examples and present them, and be sure to include what you may have to do to the replacement bike to make it like the damaged bike. That's often a negotiation situation, and the more information the owner can give the adjuster, the easier it is for the adjuster to document the settlement and pay it.

The vast majority of bike claims are bike stolen from garages, storage building, porches, and yards, usually unlocked and the bike is almost never locked. These are usually Wal-Mart or lower end LBS bikes.

If you have a C&V bike that's worth more than your deductible, something like a Velospace page would be exactly what the insurance company would need to work the claim. Photos and description are everything, and courteous, honest answers always help. Demands don't. In most states, the burden of proof is on the bike owner to prove the value of the loss, and if there's something fraudulent in that claim (like a Trek 1000 being claimed for $2500), the company can deny it. An "inaccuracy" that inflates a claim value is not looked at as a mental slip-up. I've found stolen bikes for sale on craigslist, by the owner, after the claim was paid. In those cases, the owner paid back the claim money, and dealt with the judicial system, also. Pretty stupid.

If you've had a lot of bikes stolen over the years, you're not just a statistical anomaly. You are on the radar. If I was an insurance agent, and I'm not, and you had a history of bike thefts, which you seem to have, I would send you elsewhere, too.

Insurance is a business, not an entitlement, and most premium dollars collected on Monday are paid out in claims by Friday. Profit is on operating efficiency and investments, not making low claims payments.

As far as the proper coverage, agents aren't mind-readers. If you tell them what you want covered, and where it is, you'll be able to get the coverage. You just may not want to pay for it. 90% of the people who buy insurance want it as cheap as possible, but then want everything covered all the time.

dubesor, your Ironman is easily valued, but in a liability situation, you'll get 100% of the market value, or about $300-$350. In a first party situation, like theft, you may get the same, subject to your deductible, or your policy may have a replacement cost provision, wherein you'd get the price of a new, similarly-equipped bike, less your deductible, but possibly only when you replaced the bike. (see the Cinelli example above).

alanbikehouston, you are absolutely correct.

wahoonc, your claim history is a factor when anybody writes you a policy, whether they tell you or not. The C.L.U.E. system shares claim history among most insurance companies. Statistically, the number of claims you've presented on bikes makes you an undesireable risk. Since you can't change your claim history, you can do several things: 1-explain what you have, where you keep it, and what kind of coverage you want. 2-be willing to pay for it. 3-try to build up some years with no claims other than natural occurrences.

I don't know you or the facts of your loss(es), but let me play devil's advocate, here, if the insurance company is the devil to you:

"Of all the bikes I have had stolen over the years I have never received anything close to a reasonable payout." Wow. That pretty much says it all right there, from an insurer's standpoint.

First, "of all the bikes I have had stolen over the years" indicates you're a poor risk. Ask yourself, if your neighbor had a claims history like yours, would you let him store your bikes?

Second, "reasonable" is subjective, and maybe reason had nothing to do with it. Insurers are tightly regulated, and are required to document their valuations, and make them available to you. What did you provide for them to evaluate? Was it accurate? Did you ask them how they evaluated what you provided?

Third, "payout" indicates you may consider insurance more than just a transfer of financial risk. Indemnity is the term, which means compensation equal to the loss, per contract. Your deductible is part of the contract, as are the terms of valuing the bikes (such as actual cash value vs. replacement cost).

Good luck, all, and dubesor, don't leave that Ironman sitting around. It's light enough to carry up stairs, small enough for an elevator, and pretty enough that if I see it, I'll be tempted. Just say Centurion, and I'm there.

GearsForFears

If you store a bike like that overnight anywhere but inside your apartment and you live in anything resembling a city it will be stolen regardless of how it's locked. Ditto if you commute on it and leave it outside and unwatched for hours in the same place day after day. Some thief will case it and get it with a power tool that goes through anything. The lock is for when you go somewhere and have to leave it unwatched for a little while. You have the right idea with the mini-U combined with a chain or thick armored cable. Also try to park it within sight of people. Thieves are getting bolder (as evidenced by the famous YouTube bike theft video) but most still won't get out a power tool or mammoth bolt cutter on the sidewalk.

A recent post in the commuter forum points out the lock insurance is next to worthless. Can't find the post right now but I believe it said there are numerous obstacles to making a claim that are basically impossible to navigate, including producing the busted lock, which a thief will often take along with the bike.

Steave

Some homeowners' and renters' policies allow you to add coverage for certain items, e.g., an expensive camera or laptop. The extra premium would be pretty minimal for the purpose of replacing your treasure with the same or something similar, and the amounts can be agreed in advance, with documentation of exactly what is being insured and why. That would eliminate the scenario of having the adjuster "value" your tarted up classic ride at less than the deductible.

For a highly collectible or very pricey machine, there is also the option of getting a separate policy specific to the bike for an agreed replacement cost - much like insuring a classic car. Such insurance, though, is not cheap!

Cyclist0383

Kryptonite actually pays out for their claims. A while back there was a nutty poster here on BF who had a bike stolen while using a low-end Kryptonite lock. He started an angry blog about it and the process of trying to collect on the insurance. In the end, after a month or so, Kryptonite paid out to replace his bike, and for some bizarre reason he deleted the blog.

dubesor

Thanks to all for the replies, especially RobbieTunes for elucidating the various finer points of insurance policies. You are a helpful bunch.

RobbieTunes

dubesor,
I keep a running spreadsheet of the eBay Centurion Ironman market, last 112 bikes or so, price w/shipping.
At present, Ironman Master models avg 263.48, early Ironman models 263.61, and Expert models 265.30.
Only two Carbon models were sold, one was in nice shape without OEM components and the other all beat up.

The high was an immaculate Expert that went for 454.99 w/shipping. It was basically new, so a good buy.
The low was a beat-up Expert that went for 109.13 w/shipping. (I bought it for the parts)

The average asking price of the couple of dozen that didn't sell was over $276.

canonizer

Deleting his blog might have been part of the settlement terms.

dubesor

great stats. you're really into these, huh?

RobbieTunes

Oh, yeah.

Like you, I had a Free Spirit. 1976 bicentennial edition 10-speed in white, w/red and blue accents. $105 w/tax.

RobbieTunes

elucidate? are you related to A. Winthrop?

Cyclist0383

No, he stated before he got an answer to the claim that he would delete it when the matter was settled.