Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Senior Member Unagidon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Lawrence, KS
    My Bikes
    08 Surly Crosscheck, 07 Look 555, Mid-90's Python Mtb, 1991 Miyata 914SE
    Posts
    1,314
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Miyata vs Italian - ride quality?

    I have a 1991 Miyata 914SE, and love it to death. But I just can't help thinking about what the ride of a Colnago would be like, or a Torelli...I think you get the picture. So the question is, for those that have ridden Japanese vs. Italian (or French or even Schwinn), how do the ride qualities compare? If I'm ever so fortunate to win the lottery, or somehow hit it big in Vegas, is it worth the $ to get a Colnago X-Light, a Pegoretti, or a Waterford? Or is the ride pretty much comparable?
    2012 Niner Jet9 RDO, 2008 Cervelo RS, 1998 Ritchey Road Logic
    Bikes are AWESOME!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Torchy McFlux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Vancouver
    My Bikes
    NOYB
    Posts
    1,439
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Miyata = Lexus LS400
    Colnago = Ferrari 550

    (Sorry for the car reference to anyone offended.)

  3. #3
    Padovano Mike552's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    696
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I can't speak for an actual Waterford, but I ride a Gunnar Roadie (pretty close to a Waterford besides the fact that it is an off the shelf frame and not custom made like the W's).

    I own plenty of other bicycles, and one of them is a 1982 Univega Gran Premio. The Univega is made by Miyata, and is comparable to something from their "professional" line... something along the lines of a Pro Miyata and/or a Miyata 1200 from their 1983 model year offerings.

    I can tell you this much: I am in the process of taking off the Dura Ace gruppo on my Gunnar. I will be mounting it onto my Univega.

    Don't get me wrong, the Gunnar is a stunning machine, more comfortable, sturdy, and pleasureful than 99.9% of the bikes I have ridden, but the Univega is just better. Maybe it's "livelier"... I dunno. Best bike I've ever ridden so far.
    *1987 Panasonic DX-5000/STI-9 *1983 Univega Gran Premio/STI-9 *1991 Bridgestone MB-2/Suntour XC Pro

  4. #4
    AEO
    AEO is offline
    Senior Member AEO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
    My Bikes
    Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin
    Posts
    12,255
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    for a touring frame, I'd take the miyata any day. Haven't ridden team, 7xx or 9xx miyata, but I'd probably take a Team miyata over Columbus SL (if my 615GT is any indication of quality from Miyata.

    I still like the ride quality of my Columbus SL Rossin however.
    Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
    http://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm

  5. #5
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    YT
    Posts
    7,658
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As any framebuilder will tell you, it a combination of the tubing, geometry and the builder. Now camparing a high end splined triple butted miyata to a high end colnago that is made of SLX the differences in the ride will be based on the geometry and perhaps the build quality. The quality is comparable, so it's really going to boil down to geometry and material. What I'm getting at (and not doing a very good job of it) is that you can't ask if a colnago will feel different than a miyata based on the name. Personally, I like the ride of 531 bikes over columbus. I have ridden a few columbus SP and SPX bikes (I'm tall) and for me the 531 has felt more lively. Some 531 bike however haven't been that great (raleigh team pro for example), but I love my gazelle and have a new bike ready to go. My jeunet which is 531 but with a relaxed geometry doesn't feel as lively as my marinoni made of columbus SP... I have a newer oversided steel columbus Nemo bike, it is lighter and stiffer than all my other bike and accelerates faster and is super fun to ride. You see what I am getting at? I 1973 Ernesto built nago is likely to feel completely different than a 1985 contract built super (forgive me if I have said something that is not possible based on my limited colnago knowledge).
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  6. #6
    Senior Member mazdaspeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    WA state
    Posts
    4,816
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    In my experience, 3/4x butted Japanese frames don't have nearly as plush of a ride as similar european and Italian frames.

  7. #7
    Senior Member fender1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Berwyn PA
    My Bikes
    I hate bikes!
    Posts
    4,502
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
    As any framebuilder will tell you, it a combination of the tubing, geometry and the builder. Now camparing a high end splined triple butted miyata to a high end colnago that is made of SLX the differences in the ride will be based on the geometry and perhaps the build quality. The quality is comparable, so it's really going to boil down to geometry and material. What I'm getting at (and not doing a very good job of it) is that you can't ask if a colnago will feel different than a miyata based on the name. Personally, I like the ride of 531 bikes over columbus. I have ridden a few columbus SP and SPX bikes (I'm tall) and for me the 531 has felt more lively. Some 531 bike however haven't been that great (raleigh team pro for example), but I love my gazelle and have a new bike ready to go. My jeunet which is 531 but with a relaxed geometry doesn't feel as lively as my marinoni made of columbus SP... I have a newer oversided steel columbus Nemo bike, it is lighter and stiffer than all my other bike and accelerates faster and is super fun to ride. You see what I am getting at? I 1973 Ernesto built nago is likely to feel completely different than a 1985 contract built super (forgive me if I have said something that is not possible based on my limited colnago knowledge).
    How about Corky? Is that ready to go yet?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Unagidon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Lawrence, KS
    My Bikes
    08 Surly Crosscheck, 07 Look 555, Mid-90's Python Mtb, 1991 Miyata 914SE
    Posts
    1,314
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cyclotoine View Post
    As any framebuilder will tell you, it a combination of the tubing, geometry and the builder. Now camparing a high end splined triple butted miyata to a high end colnago that is made of SLX the differences in the ride will be based on the geometry and perhaps the build quality. The quality is comparable, so it's really going to boil down to geometry and material. What I'm getting at (and not doing a very good job of it) is that you can't ask if a colnago will feel different than a miyata based on the name. Personally, I like the ride of 531 bikes over columbus. I have ridden a few columbus SP and SPX bikes (I'm tall) and for me the 531 has felt more lively. Some 531 bike however haven't been that great (raleigh team pro for example), but I love my gazelle and have a new bike ready to go. My jeunet which is 531 but with a relaxed geometry doesn't feel as lively as my marinoni made of columbus SP... I have a newer oversided steel columbus Nemo bike, it is lighter and stiffer than all my other bike and accelerates faster and is super fun to ride. You see what I am getting at? I 1973 Ernesto built nago is likely to feel completely different than a 1985 contract built super (forgive me if I have said something that is not possible based on my limited colnago knowledge).
    Thanks for the thorough attempt at explaining. So what type of tubing would the triple splined miyata best compare to? 853? 531? Columbus? Thanks again.
    2012 Niner Jet9 RDO, 2008 Cervelo RS, 1998 Ritchey Road Logic
    Bikes are AWESOME!

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    9,996
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Miyata had their own tube mill and therefore could tailor tubing for specific models. The splined tubes in a Team Miyata are not necessarily the same as those in a 914. Consequently it's very hard to compare Miyata STB to anybody elses tubeset, though by virtue of the splines most people would say Columbus SLX/SPX/TSX.

    The missing factor in this discussion is your personal preference in ride characteristics, something we cannot know. It's time for you to start test riding as much vintage steel as you can. It's a voyage of exploration and self-discovery. In the end, you may decide the 914SE is your perfect bicycle or you may find that it is something Italian, but I suspect that you will become like myself and many other members, owning several road bicycles, each one suited to a particular mood or ride (crit, road race, fast century, liesurely ride, multi-day tour, etc).

    However, if you can afford only one bicycle, I'd say you have very good choice in the 914SE. In general, it is a better choice for a multi-purpose bicycle than the more upscale models, which tend to be more specialized.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Unagidon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Lawrence, KS
    My Bikes
    08 Surly Crosscheck, 07 Look 555, Mid-90's Python Mtb, 1991 Miyata 914SE
    Posts
    1,314
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
    Miyata had their own tube mill and therefore could tailor tubing for specific models. The splined tubes in a Team Miyata are not necessarily the same as those in a 914. Consequently it's very hard to compare Miyata STB to anybody elses tubeset, though by virtue of the splines most people would say Columbus SLX/SPX/TSX.

    The missing factor in this discussion is your personal preference in ride characteristics, something we cannot know. It's time for you to start test riding as much vintage steel as you can. It's a voyage of exploration and self-discovery. In the end, you may decide the 914SE is your perfect bicycle or you may find that it is something Italian, but I suspect that you will become like myself and many other members, owning several road bicycles, each one suited to a particular mood or ride (crit, road race, fast century, liesurely ride, multi-day tour, etc).

    However, if you can afford only one bicycle, I'd say you have very good choice in the 914SE. In general, it is a better choice for a multi-purpose bicycle than the more upscale models, which tend to be more specialized.

    Thanks T-Mar. My problems are:
    1) I don't ride a common size (49 - 51cm frames) so it's difficult to test ride many different bikes.
    2) I love bikes...ALOT...but lack $ and space for any more bikes.
    3) If I buy any more bikes, I'm sure my wife will divorce me...

    But you're correct - I do ride my different bikes for different purposes. If I go on rides > 50 miles, I'll stick with my modern carbon bike. But I do love the ride of my Miyata, and most recently, added the cro-mo Surly Crosscheck to my collection for winter riding, really bad chip and seal rodes, and just a tougher bike without having to worry about road conditions.

    I think I'll probably continue to lust after those high-end steel bikes, vintage and new....sigh......need to win the lottery!
    2012 Niner Jet9 RDO, 2008 Cervelo RS, 1998 Ritchey Road Logic
    Bikes are AWESOME!

  11. #11
    Composed Mainly of Beer
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    South Austin, Texas
    My Bikes
    Surly CrossCheck, Centurion CompTA, Schwinn Mirada
    Posts
    186
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    More bikes are much less expensive than a wife.
    1984 Centurion Comp TA
    2001 Surly Cross Check - bean green, baby
    1985 Schwinn Mirada beater/commuter

  12. #12
    Senior Member Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,768
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have owned a Team Miyata for over 25 years and it was the last bike that I raced on. It does everything well but nothing exceptionally. I have other bikes that descend better, are better for sprinting, are better for climbing... The Miyata is always better than average in virtually ever performance category that you could come up with. It gets everything done but rarely if ever will bring a smile to my face while riding. It is basically uninspiring or boring.

    The comparison to the Ferrari and Lexus is quite apt in my eyes. I would take one of my De Rosa bikes any day over my Miyata.

  13. #13
    Senior Member mazdaspeed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    WA state
    Posts
    4,816
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Citoyen du Monde View Post
    I have owned a Team Miyata for over 25 years and it was the last bike that I raced on. It does everything well but nothing exceptionally. I have other bikes that descend better, are better for sprinting, are better for climbing... The Miyata is always better than average in virtually ever performance category that you could come up with. It gets everything done but rarely if ever will bring a smile to my face while riding. It is basically uninspiring or boring.
    Wow, that's exactly how I feel about my team fuji...

  14. #14
    Senior Member Yogurt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia
    My Bikes
    Formerly...1978 Proteus, 1981 Miyata 912, 1983 Schwinn Paramount, 1962 Raleigh Sports Deluxe, 1976 Alan Super Record.
    Posts
    540
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I commute on an '81 Miyata 912, which is an awesome bike but the frame flexes a lot more than I'd like when I really put my legs into it. (It's also a 25" frame and I'm not small.) Its ride doesn't really compare to my Columbus-framed '83 Paramount (Waterford), which is solid as a rock. I love 'em both though.

  15. #15
    "Purgatory Central" Wino Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    beautiful "Cypress Gardens" florida
    Posts
    1,757
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well I dont have a Miyata 914 but I do have a mid 80's Centurian 'Elite' with 'Tange #2' cro-moly lugged frame and it has a very sweet ride. For me, its great, and I would even say its a bit more plush on lazy relaxed rides than my '91 Tommasini.

    The Tommasini has a Columbus SL frame and that is the bike I do most of my training on. Its slightly less plush than my Centurian, but it handles better, is more livelier, and dives into corners fast almost like its on rails. The Centurian, as far as the fitting of the tubes and overall aesthetics of the lugs looks much more generic than the Tommasini, which is a rolling masterpiece.

    I really love both my bikes, but the nod goes to the Italians in performance, and maybe to the japanese in comfort. Its interesting too that both bikes weigh about the same and have about the same wheelbase, but the geometry between the two are different, with the seattube and headtube of the Centurian a bit more relaxed.
    ~ "I like the way the brake cables come out of the top of the levers and loop around to the brake calipers!...I like those downtube shifters too!...No no no, don't take 'em off, don't take 'em off,...leave 'em on, leave 'em on! - Thats right baby!!

    ~BF - Steel Club Member #00051

  16. #16
    Senior Member Unagidon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Lawrence, KS
    My Bikes
    08 Surly Crosscheck, 07 Look 555, Mid-90's Python Mtb, 1991 Miyata 914SE
    Posts
    1,314
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So what would be your dream steel ride - Japanese, American, Italian, French, or otherwise...
    2012 Niner Jet9 RDO, 2008 Cervelo RS, 1998 Ritchey Road Logic
    Bikes are AWESOME!

  17. #17
    Padovano Mike552's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    696
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My dream ride would be some type of non-air hardened steel. It would have to be lugged and probably made out of 4130 or similar material. Stiff in the BB area while retaining a springy feel everywhere else, especially the chain stays. I couldn't really care where it was made.

    The only downside to such a setup is that it would be a "heavy" bike. I also realize that I am describing the vast majority of mid-range vintage Japanese steel, except for the fact that few of them are stiff in the BB area.
    *1987 Panasonic DX-5000/STI-9 *1983 Univega Gran Premio/STI-9 *1991 Bridgestone MB-2/Suntour XC Pro

  18. #18
    Junior Member iRYDSTL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Kitchener/Collingwood ON Canada
    My Bikes
    1966 CCM Tandem, 1980 Schwinn Typhoon Cruiser, 1980 Gios Torino Super Record, 1985 Colnago Super, 1986 Celeste Bianchi Superleggera, 1986 Olmo Competition, 1988 Rocky Mountain Whistler, 1990 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 Basso di flora Loto, 2011 Cervelo RS
    Posts
    10
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Never rode a Miyata, the closest I rode to that would be a 1984 Raleigh Vector, while all my buddies rode Bianchis, Colnagos, Ciocc, and Pinarello. Now I own all of those 80's Italian classics. I also own a Cervelo RS like you...and to tell you the truth, if I close my eyes I can't tell if I am riding that carbon RS or my 1986 Olmo, its that smooth. I ride tubulars exclusively which makes the ride that much sweeter, and I haven't had a flat in 20 yrs... My Basso is a '92 and it is Columbus SLX and is in a league all to its own. It is absolutely immaculate and was ridden twice from the previous owner before a car crash left him paralized. The bike hung in the rafters of his garage until I bought it last year. I have put about 500km on the sweetest champagne asphalt in my area. If you have a friend or know someone with an Italian steed that will let you ride it, I am sure you will be hooked. Personally I would rather give up a kidney than let someone ride one of my bikes...it took me way too long to find them!
    The correct number of bikes to own is N+1
    Http://www.pbase.com/tisdavid/image/143707930

  19. #19
    Senior Member Steve Whitlatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Chicago area
    My Bikes
    1989 Schwinn Circuit
    Posts
    912
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    When I ride my Trek I think it rides so much better than my Prelude. When I ride my Prelude I think it rides so much better than my Trek. I have yet to ride an Italian bike. I am sure it will be fun when I do. I think there is also the effect of pride in ownership and the beautiful looks of the bike that play a roll in how much you enjoy a bike. In stereo equipment, a McIntosh amp sounds no different than an Adcom amp but try telling that to the owner of that big beautiful McIntosh amp. (the sound comes from the speakers)
    My bikes - 1988 Schwinn Circuit x 2 - 1950`s Criterium (French) - 1987 Schwinn Voyageur - 1987 Trek 560
    Wife`s Bike - 1980 Schwinn Voyageur 11.8

  20. #20
    Fast+Bulbous thinktubes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,588
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •