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Old 10-19-08, 05:16 PM   #1
iab 
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New Cinelli frameset

A little OT, but the Road Forum would show no love. Welded stainless with fastback stays and an old logo badge. I like it and will go out on a limb and call it classic (although the fork is a bit tacky).

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Old 10-19-08, 05:19 PM   #2
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hummm..... YUCK!

Not for me, sorry.
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Old 10-19-08, 05:20 PM   #3
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hummmm....yeah!

where do we read more?
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Old 10-19-08, 05:24 PM   #4
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No lugs? No hugs.

But it certainly is different - and I like different. Even if I'd never think to take it out of the house...That fork is a real sore-thumb.
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Old 10-19-08, 05:25 PM   #5
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Alright, we are 2 for 4!

More here, http://www.cinelli.it/scripts/prodot...=EN&IdBici=239
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Old 10-19-08, 05:29 PM   #6
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Cookie cutter crap with an Italian name! All the Italian bikes of today using the names of yesterday are a disgraceful representation of a respectable heritage. Shame on them. Wow a classy head badge with a cookie cutter carbon fork. Ugh!

The art of a steel frame is in the crafting of the blades.
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Old 10-19-08, 05:33 PM   #7
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I 'sort of' like it.

I'm not a fan of the nouvo sloping geometry or carbon forks, but the proof is in the riding. Are you thinking of getting one?

FWIW, I think it would look good with the newer Campy Carbon components, and I'd love to take one for a spin.

This coming from an owner of a 1984 Cinelli SC, bought new and still ridden a lot. One of my favorite bikes, actually.
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Old 10-19-08, 05:34 PM   #8
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Cookie cutter crap with an Italian name! All the Italian bikes of today using the names of yesterday are a disgraceful representation of a respectable heritage. Shame on them. Wow a classy head badge with a cookie cutter carbon fork. Ugh!

The art of a steel frame is in the crafting of the blades.
Not much love in C&V either.
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Old 10-19-08, 05:36 PM   #9
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I 'sort of' like it.

I'm not a fan of the nouvo sloping geometry or carbon forks, but the proof is in the riding. Are you thinking of getting one?

FWIW, I think it would look good with the newer Campy Carbon components, and I'd love to take one for a spin.

This coming from an owner of a 1984 Cinelli SC, bought new and still ridden a lot. One of my favorite bikes, actually.
Nah, I'm not going to buy one, but I do like it. I wonder if they would swap an SC fork? I'll email and ask.
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Old 10-19-08, 05:39 PM   #10
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2009 paramount = miss

Cinelli = Hit

If I am buying NEW steel I want it to be at the forefront of what steel has to offer. Stainless, TIG, super light, this is what I want in a NEW racing frame, that is what cinelli is offering. It IS a tribute to the heritage of the company as producing top notch racing machines. This machine uses the best methods and materials available to make a competitive steel frame. I like it. Paramount.. no thanks. Cinelli, yes please.
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Old 10-19-08, 05:42 PM   #11
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I wonder if the folks giving negative opinions have actually ridden one (or any modern bike), or are maybe suffering from a bit of 'bike envy', or perhaps they are Luddites, who knows.

I love the stainless look, love the lack of splashy decals, and think it would look great with a carbon gruppo.

I'll pass judgment on the bike itself until after someone lends me one for an hour or two ;-)
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Old 10-19-08, 06:15 PM   #12
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I agree with OFG. Aside from the sloping tt, which is an unavoidable part of the market at this point, I think Cinelli got aesthetics and materials mostly right with this frame.

It's a good trend anyway.
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Old 10-19-08, 06:17 PM   #13
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kbjack, Have you found a new bike yet? We should try to get in one more ride before I head back to AZ.
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Old 10-19-08, 06:20 PM   #14
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I give it a vom, and a why bother. To wear the Cinelli name and be impressive, it would have to be... well, impressive.
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Old 10-19-08, 06:38 PM   #15
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Good points:
Well-done joints.
Chrome.

Bad points:
Everything else.

-Kurt
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Old 10-19-08, 06:43 PM   #16
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though i like the classic lug look, personally i think it is gorgeous
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Old 10-19-08, 06:47 PM   #17
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kbjack, Have you found a new bike yet? We should try to get in one more ride before I head back to AZ.
Nothing yet (well, I did pick up an older Koga Miyata Randonneur, but that doesn't count as new). Actually, the Supercorsa is at the top of the list for potential new rides. My guess though is that I'll be on the Bianchi for some time to come. Any new addition would have to have that feature allowing it to turn invisible any time my GF looks at it. It would also have to be able to pay rent + winter utilities. Maybe I should post this one in the dreambike thread.

But a ride anytime this week would be great, just let me know.

(Sorry for the OT-ness.)
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Old 10-19-08, 07:05 PM   #18
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Cookie cutter crap with an Italian name! All the Italian bikes of today using the names of yesterday are a disgraceful representation of a respectable heritage. Shame on them. Wow a classy head badge with a cookie cutter carbon fork. Ugh!
The oft-forwarded opinion that every vintage steel Italian bike was a hand-crafted masterpiece of the frame-builders art is essentially intentional naivete. You are ignoring the evidence. Romanticism aside, the average C&V Italian ride came with terrible paint, bad chrome, decals that didn't stick, geometries that didn't work, a drivetrain that didn't shift and abysmal quality control. They can't all be one of "the great ones." There's a lot to be said for "cookie cutter" bikes if the result is a higher quality product. If you are racing you want reliable consistency, not flair, and the fact of the matter is that high-end Taiwanese bikes of today are built to much higher QC standards than vintage steel.

As a long-time artist metalsmith myself I am passionate about the craftsmanship of a fine hand-made steel frame. However, from an engineering perspective there's very little room for that kind of bike in the competitive world. I, for one, think it's a brilliant step forward. The possibility of seeing steel in the peloton is both exciting and a form of vindication for all of us. We are FAR from exhausting the characteristics of the material and the more R&D in the field the better, IMHO.

Also, give iab some credit, the man knows Italian bikes, and he definitely has style and taste.

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If I am buying NEW steel I want it to be at the forefront of what steel has to offer. Stainless, TIG, super light, this is what I want in a NEW racing frame, that is what cinelli is offering. It IS a tribute to the heritage of the company as producing top notch racing machines. This machine uses the best methods and materials available to make a competitive steel frame. I like it. Paramount.. no thanks. Cinelli, yes please.
Well said. The revered Italian marques earned their reputation by producing championship-quality bicycles. They did so by building with the best techniques available, the highest quality components, and the latest technology, for their time. Tullio Campagnolo was a technologist, not a luddite. In the modern world of bicycle competition you can't build champions out of lugged steel with friction shifting, period. If Cinelli was building losing bikes in an attempt to be "retro," that would be a disgrace to the name, there are plenty of niche market builders out there already. For those of you who think otherwise, where is your penny-farthing?
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Old 10-19-08, 07:10 PM   #19
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The oft-forwarded opinion that every vintage steel Italian bike was a hand-crafted masterpiece of the frame-builders art is essentially intentional naivete. You are ignoring the evidence. Romanticism aside, the average C&V Italian ride came with terrible paint, bad chrome, decals that didn't stick, geometries that didn't work, a drivetrain that didn't shift and abysmal quality control.
Can't agree entirely about the drivetrains, but I can in regards to framebuilding and paint. I've yet to see an Italian machine that I've been entirely impressed with in either respect. Thin chrome that rusts through the surface easily, thin paint on most (or in the case of the glut of cheap-o Guerciottis that popped up out of nowhere last year on eBay, paint thicker then bad powdercoat), and if not thin, flaking.

Lug prep and brazing quality? Yech. I'll take a Japanese-made machine instead (much as I dislike most of them), thank you very much!

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Old 10-19-08, 07:18 PM   #20
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A little OT, but the Road Forum would show no love. Welded stainless with fastback stays and an old logo badge. I like it and will go out on a limb and call it classic (although the fork is a bit tacky).

I like it.
Kind of like Sophia Lauren's daughter.
You know the original was lovely, so...credit the heritage.

Did you know that you can still get a lugged Columbus-tubed Cinelli frame, new?
I priced one the other day, only available as a complete bike, but well under the carbon slingers.
I think it was $3800 at LickBike with Ultegra.

Still, if polished coolness is your thing, that polished
Ti Litespeed on eBay is begging for an owner who will build it right.
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Old 10-19-08, 07:44 PM   #21
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Did you know that you can still get a lugged Columbus-tubed Cinelli frame, new?
GVH Bikes has new Cinelli Super Corsa framesets for $1100.
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Old 10-19-08, 07:48 PM   #22
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I love the little Columbus bird on the fork.
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Old 10-19-08, 07:50 PM   #23
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I think that by the '70s, the Italians had pretty much gotten the modern racing geometry down. The geometry of racing bikes hasn't changed much from what the Italians were making then. If a stock bike fits you that is.

I think a lot of bikes were made very well, although some Italian companies got pretty sloppy as production increased. And they really were making them to look good (flashy maybe?) from the crowd, not up close and personal like American builders tend to do.

I have a Viner, which is a company that always had value bikes. In 1980, I could afford $300 for a Columbus SL frame, I wasn't going to spend twice that much for a better known name and a little bit better paint job. Although the paint job on my bike is really neat. It has a sparkle clear overcoat. Another interesting thing is that it turns purple in street lights, but in the day, it's baby blue. One time I was in a night race, and I thought someone had stolen my bike because I saw a purple Viner, not blue.
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Old 10-19-08, 07:55 PM   #24
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I am more interested in the tool. I have a Walker frame made from Columbus Life, with apparently very similar tubing dimensions. It rides very well; unfortunately it is damaged and unrepairable.

Steel simply rides better. I would have to be on butt-numbing drugs to not notice the difference between the Colnago Super yesterday and the Carbon Fiber wonder bike today. I'd also have to have a third more lung capacity to not notice the eight (!) pounds difference between the two...especially when my lovely wife is intent on murdering me, on every climb.

Is this some kind of stainless?
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Old 10-19-08, 07:57 PM   #25
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Remarks on the quality of Italian bikes made me search for this comment someone made on the CR list last year:

I did a nice ride to visit from Verona to Lago Caldonazzo to visit Dario
Pegoretti last year. We chatted about many subjects and I remember in
particular his comments about DeRosa. Dario said that while many builders
could build one perfect bike out of 100, Ugo DeRosa would build 100 perfect
bikes out of 100.
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