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  1. #1
    Senior Member Bikedued's Avatar
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    You ever have a slow, tiring bike?...Mystery....

    The bike I'm talking about is a late 80's Shogun Alpine GT(touring with Canti's). Tange Infinity tubing, stock triple, cartridge BB with less than 30 miles on it, etc. I have changed wheels and tires, even 23's with skinny rims!, checked the BB for tightness in the bearings, different tire brands and so on. There's no brake drag anywhere. The problem is that I get on this bike, and within a mile or two I feel worn out? The leg extension is right. I've checked nearly everything on the bike. Could it be the touring geometry doesn't agree with my body for some odd reason? Maybe the BB is defective and tightens once it spins a few hundred times and warms up? I just dug it out today, threw on some wide aeros and 40c tires, and headed out to the local convenience store. Same old worn out feeling by the time I got there. It's like riding into a headwind, even when there's no wind at all. It's not really a weight issue I don't think. I have other bikes the same weight that roll just fine. I'm stumped.,,,,BD

    I guess it would be the perfect training bike, huh? If you can keep this going you should fly on another bike, lol....
    Last edited by Bikedued; 11-15-08 at 12:02 PM.
    "Whale. Oil. Beef. Hooked!" The Rumjacks

  2. #2
    K2ProFlex baby! ilikebikes's Avatar
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    My response would have been something along the lines of: "Does your bike have computer controlled suspension? Then shut your piehole, this baby is from the future!"
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    I have a bike like that, no matter what I do to it it kinda "slugs" along I starting thinking that maybe it was me? but it doesnt happen on any of my other bikes
    You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve

  3. #3
    Disraeli Gears Charles Wahl's Avatar
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    Are your derailer pulleys free-turning? Any tight links in the chain? Does the bike feel like it coasts well? Little things like this make a difference. If you've tried completely different wheels, then that can't be the difference. Maybe it's all the vortices hanging off those cantilevers (smoke tunnel testing?); or it just doesn't look cool/sleek enough for your head to believe that it's not "draggy."

  4. #4
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    That slow feeling is the main reason for me to thin a bike from the herd. I think it has to do with the amount of flex vs. stiffness in the tubing, the geometry particular to what works for you, and who knows what else. I don't mind going slow--but I don't want to feel slow!

    Neal

  5. #5
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    My wife's beach cruiser is like that. My hard tail mountain bike "flies". Both have big, fat tires. I think it is the frame geometry (poor ergonomics) and perhaps some energy absorption in the frame (high hysteresis) rather than a light, springy (low hysteresis) frame.

  6. #6
    Great State of Varmint Panthers007's Avatar
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    Back in the 1980's I worked on a lot of Shoguns. Everyone wanted something better put on it. Here. Here. And here...Then they gave up. I never pursued the reason they stopped wanting more, but my guess was that they gave up as their bike showed no sign of improvement. They wanted a faster bike and after several upgrades - lost faith. LOL. Whatever it is/was, there seemed to be no cure back then.

    I'll bet you can find some really good condition Shoguns out there - in the back of garages and basements.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cateye View Post
    Only panthers007 is stupid enough to believe that this is a good idea.

  7. #7
    Senior Member RobbieTunes's Avatar
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    I had a bike like that, and it was the wheelset. The front wheel was binding, and only when the skewers were tightened and the load was on it. Off the bike, it was fine, on the rack, it didn't show a lot of problem, but on the road, it was like having the brakes on.
    Robbie ♪♫♪...☻
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  8. #8
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Some bikes are just dead like that.

    Following up on what robbie mentioned....lift each wheel off the ground. Do the wheels oscillate on their own? If everything spins free....well, ummm, you've got a bike to place on CL or Ebay.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  9. #9
    Real Men Ride Ordinaries fuzz2050's Avatar
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    slow

    I have an old trek 950. It began it's life as a mountain bike, with giant knobby tires that felt slow on pavement. I turned it into a nice touring bike, with reasonable width slick tires. Only problem, it still felt slow. I've gone over it from head to toe, new tires, fresh cartridge bottom bracket, overhauled the hubs, headset, realigned the brakes, everything I can think of, and it's still slow.

    I did find a solution, I gave it to a friend who was used to riding a Magna, to him it rides like a dream.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Gordo Grande's Avatar
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    If you're used to a racing bike, a touring bike is going to feel like a truck. The stays are a lot longer, and there is a lot more flex in the frame, which saps energy. Also, if you have a riding style that favors hammering higher gears vs spinning lower gears, you're just going to lose that much more power to frame flex.

    If it's a touring bike, it's designed for long, slow comfortable rides. Try riding around with 50 lbs of camping gear and the bike may feel a lot better to you.

    JMHO!

  11. #11
    My bikes became Vintage OLDYELLR's Avatar
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    Jan Heine, editor of Bicycle Quarterly, talks about a quality in bicycles called "planing".

    Planing: The ability of a rider to get in sync with a bicycle. When the bicycle planes, riding with high power output becomes easier, probably because less lactic acid is produced in the rider's leg muscles. Planing is associated with frame flex. The term is borrowed from boats, which use less energy at higher speeds as they plane and rise out of the water. See Vol. 4, No. 4; Vol. 5, No. 4; Vol. 5, No. 4.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Bikedued's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordo Grande View Post
    If you're used to a racing bike, a touring bike is going to feel like a truck. The stays are a lot longer, and there is a lot more flex in the frame, which saps energy. Also, if you have a riding style that favors hammering higher gears vs spinning lower gears, you're just going to lose that much more power to frame flex.

    If it's a touring bike, it's designed for long, slow comfortable rides. Try riding around with 50 lbs of camping gear and the bike may feel a lot better to you.

    JMHO!
    Quote Originally Posted by caterham View Post
    you say that your leg extension seems about right but ime, even a few millimeters off can make a noticeable difference in power and efficiency. try playing around with saddle setback .in spite of recent arguments to the contrary, i find that KOP issues can be critical. it just might be that the geometry/setup of this bike doesn't allow you to achieve the best knee/muscle angularity.
    Quote Originally Posted by OLDYELLR View Post
    Jan Heine, editor of Bicycle Quarterly, talks about a quality in bicycles called "planing".

    Planing: The ability of a rider to get in sync with a bicycle. When the bicycle planes, riding with high power output becomes easier, probably because less lactic acid is produced in the rider's leg muscles. Planing is associated with frame flex. The term is borrowed from boats, which use less energy at higher speeds as they plane and rise out of the water. See Vol. 4, No. 4; Vol. 5, No. 4; Vol. 5, No. 4.
    Interesting. Never thought of these points. It does seem to travel along much easier in lower gears with a faster spin. I tend to use the big ring and 2-3 up from the small gear in back, with a slow powerful stroke(on racing style frames). I played around with height today a bit, but didn't spend to much time on it.
    I fixed several bikes today, I finally had some spare time. Took the fenders off the Club Fuji, they always rubbed. Put a used Deore shifter on the X-03, the old one was missing the cap. Changed the rims and tires on the Shogun. Put another coat or two of Shellac on the black SC, PX-10, and Carabela. This all slowed down the second the sun went away. The temp is dropping, and FAST. Brrrrr.,,,,BD
    "Whale. Oil. Beef. Hooked!" The Rumjacks

  13. #13
    Nut infinityeye's Avatar
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    Or its just got a bad soul...

  14. #14
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikedued View Post
    I tend to use the big ring and 2-3 up from the small gear in back, with a slow powerful stroke(on racing style frames).
    Ouch!

    Try working on your form, BD - find a gear that you can spin reasonably quickly in, providing you still have some resistance against you on the pedals, and that said gear isn't causing you to bounce.

    -Kurt

  15. #15
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckk View Post
    A couple years ago I found a February 1977 issue of Bicycling with a "frame stiffness test" of about 40 contemporary frames by Frank Burto.
    Very interesting. Now I'm convinced to avoid the Raleigh Pro...but I'm definitely going to get my hands on a Condor

    -Kurt
    Last edited by cudak888; 11-15-08 at 05:17 PM.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Bikedued's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    Ouch!

    Try working on your form, BD - find a gear that you can spin reasonably quickly in, providing you still have some resistance against you on the pedals, and that said gear isn't causing you to bounce.

    -Kurt
    Well the only bike my form doesn't seem to work with is this one. The other bikes don't seem to mind, hehe.,,,,BD
    "Whale. Oil. Beef. Hooked!" The Rumjacks

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    Very interesting. Now I'm convinced not to try the Raleigh Super Course
    -Kurt
    So you have such strong opinions about a bike you've never tried?! Wow.

    Neal

  18. #18
    Old Fogy
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    My 1936 Columbia feels slow. It may have something to do with the forty some odd pounds it weighs, or maybe the fat tires and the two speed hub.

  19. #19
    SNARKY MEMBER CardiacKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikedued View Post
    Well the only bike my form doesn't seem to work with is this one. The other bikes don't seem to mind, hehe.,,,,BD
    Touring bikes are made for carrying heavy loads long distances. You can't expect to ride it the same way you ride a racing bike. One thing to do would be to take off the computer, if you have one. It can be frustrating if you are trying to match the speed of a light weight road bike.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Bikedued's Avatar
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    My 55 Columbia felt like a motorcycle that someone pulled the engine off of, lol. I can definitely understand.,,,,BD
    "Whale. Oil. Beef. Hooked!" The Rumjacks

  21. #21
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlerner View Post
    So you have such strong opinions about a bike you've never tried?! Wow.
    As a matter of fact, I meant the Raleigh Pro Mk II, as listed in the chart.

    Quite frankly, I would not decline the offer to try one out, but this list seems rather convincing (as much as I admit that Berto can be a windbag at times).

    -Kurt

  22. #22
    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
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    You might just try coasting down a hill and compare your speed to other bikes on the same hill.

    If you have something noticeably binding up (wheel bearings, etc.), they might become noticeably warmer.
    Last edited by StephenH; 11-15-08 at 05:32 PM.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member Bikedued's Avatar
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    That might not be an accurate test, with a 26-27 pound bike and a 215 pound rider, lol.,,,,BD


    Not to mention finding a hill might mean a loooong ride. A freeway overpass would be easier to find.
    Last edited by Bikedued; 11-15-08 at 05:35 PM.
    "Whale. Oil. Beef. Hooked!" The Rumjacks

  24. #24
    Great State of Varmint Panthers007's Avatar
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    The promising and rising star in Asian commerce, Horatio Shogun, died under mysterious circumstances at his bicycle factory. He had fallen into the tubing-machine and was extruded in a rounded, butted form. Or did he slip? Maybe he was pushed? His spirit wanted the investigators to look at the film in the factory-floor cameras. He was certain they would, if they slowed down the film, see the murderer who pushed him and his spirit could at last rest in peace - albeit in extruded form.

    As a result of this ghastly event - Mr. Shogun entered into every bicycle-frame ever made with his name on it. He wants you to slow down and look at the film.

    (there - mystery solved)
    Last edited by Panthers007; 11-15-08 at 11:05 PM. Reason: Sp.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cateye View Post
    Only panthers007 is stupid enough to believe that this is a good idea.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Bikedued's Avatar
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    Was mister Shogun triple butted? That would explain the lack of speed too.,,,,BD
    "Whale. Oil. Beef. Hooked!" The Rumjacks

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