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Old 11-25-08, 05:54 PM   #1
erbfarm
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24" front wheel, 700c back -- how does that ride?

Am scoping out a mid-80's Terry Symmetry which has a 24" front wheel and a 700C back. What is the purpose of the 24" front wheel? how does it affect the ride? I've never seen anything like that and I can't figure out why you would design a bike like that. Thanks for the info!
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Old 11-25-08, 06:08 PM   #2
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The design is to allow a full size frame on a bike that would fit a smaller person.

Doesn't East Hill ride one?
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Old 11-25-08, 06:33 PM   #3
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There is also another thread that has a big frame set up like that, I was wondering the same question if it is not for the smaller person then why is the bike set up like that?
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Old 11-25-08, 06:44 PM   #4
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bmaxwell is thinking of the 3Rensho that i just picked up. Probably a slightly different rig than the Terry, but I do hope to get the 3Rensho built this weekend or some time over the next week or so and give it a try. I would think that with the proper fork set up and stem it wouldn't handle much if any differently than a 700c pair.
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Old 11-25-08, 06:51 PM   #5
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24" front wheel is to avoid toe over lap when you make a bike for a short person. My wife owns a Symmetry and likes it a lot. It was here favorite bike until she got a custom Seven this summer. The Seven has 24" wheels front and rear. Roger
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Old 11-25-08, 07:00 PM   #6
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The design is to allow a full size frame on a bike that would fit a smaller person.

Doesn't East Hill ride one?
Yes, I have two bikes like that.

The idea is that the smaller front wheel will not get in the way of one's toes the same way a 700c wheel would. I find that the design tends to make the bike a bit 'twitchy' at first, but rapidly became accustomed to it. Now I just think of those bikes as 'nimble' .

The modern solution to tiny women on bikes:



Here's the Nishiki which now lives with bmaxwell, with 700c wheels fore and after:



The Centurion Dave Scott Ironman:



The Nishiki Prestige:



The Richard Sach, with 24 inch wheels:

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Old 11-25-08, 07:07 PM   #7
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Yeah, having spent only a little bit of time on bikes with smaller thin tires in the past, I was going to guess that it would be a little more 'twitchy' to someone coming from a 700c front wheel due to the smaller rotating radius, but not something that you wouldn't adjust to rather quickly. I feel the same way just going to a much smaller frame some times if I get on a say 53cm bike (my normal being closer to a 57cm)
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Old 11-25-08, 07:39 PM   #8
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East Hill, I don't mean to be rude/intrusive/something else equally offending (I hope I'm not coming off that way asking this)... But... Just how tall are you? Cause it always seems like you ride something that's equivalent to like a 46cm frame. I'm just curious, sorry if I'm being a tad out of line or anything.
-Gene-
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Old 11-25-08, 08:04 PM   #9
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East Hill, I don't mean to be rude/intrusive/something else equally offending (I hope I'm not coming off that way asking this)... But... Just how tall are you? Cause it always seems like you ride something that's equivalent to like a 46cm frame. I'm just curious, sorry if I'm being a tad out of line or anything.
-Gene-

I am 5'0" tall (that's if I haven't shrunk over the years).

My bikes are between 46-48cms.

No offense taken, it's a legitimate question!

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Old 11-25-08, 10:07 PM   #10
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I noticed a couple of Craigslist time-trial bikes with smaller front wheel, with the claim that this was for a more aero riding position. Not being familiar with such things, I didn't know if this was some BS or something that's really done and reasonable.
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Old 11-25-08, 10:12 PM   #11
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I noticed a couple of Craigslist time-trial bikes with smaller front wheel, with the claim that this was for a more aero riding position. Not being familiar with such things, I didn't know if this was some BS or something that's really done and reasonable.
This is the post I was about to make.

Sometimes it's for short people, sometimes it's for getting low over the front of the bike for better aero, usually on TT bikes.

People often refer to them as "funny bikes" or "drag bikes".
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Old 11-25-08, 10:18 PM   #12
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Here's two ads that show this. I was thinking I saw an ad that mentioned the aero position, but I'm not seeing it now.
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/bik/932866926.html
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/bik/932897442.html
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Old 11-25-08, 10:28 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Amani576 View Post
East Hill, I don't mean to be rude/intrusive/something else equally offending (I hope I'm not coming off that way asking this)... But... Just how tall are you? Cause it always seems like you ride something that's equivalent to like a 46cm frame.
I've met East Hill. She's a giant - well over 7' tall. She wears one bicycle on each foot, like roller skates. And thus the legend was born...

(BTW, I have never seen a picture of your Rodriguez, is it the same size as your others?)

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Old 11-26-08, 12:31 AM   #14
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Ok, here is east hills nishiki olympic 12 and how it looks now. This work was a compilation of east hills frame, my components and mtwkr's technical skills putting it all together. this is one true C&V group project and it would have qualified for the velo cheapo build off.


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Old 11-26-08, 12:50 AM   #15
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One thing I've noticed about East Hill's bikes is the fork rake is s-o-o-o- long. Very stretched out, like a touring bike. Is there something about the geometry of small frames that requires the builders to put on those forks - stretches out the wheelbase to keep a small bike from being too twitchy? Moves the wheel out a bit to avoid toe overlap?
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Old 11-26-08, 01:02 AM   #16
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Interresting. I knew about the Terrys and I`ve seen pics of those "funny bikes" but I never would have expected to see the Ironman or the Prestige that way. The chain rings look enormous!
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Old 11-26-08, 08:51 AM   #17
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Ok, here is east hills nishiki olympic 12 and how it looks now. This work was a compilation of east hills frame, my components and mtwkr's technical skills putting it all together. this is one true C&V group project and it would have qualified for the velo cheapo build off.



SO sweet .
nice ride .!
Cheers
T
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Old 11-26-08, 09:18 AM   #18
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I noticed a couple of Craigslist time-trial bikes with smaller front wheel, with the claim that this was for a more aero riding position. Not being familiar with such things, I didn't know if this was some BS or something that's really done and reasonable.
For TT bikes, it was a fad, and a poor idea IMO (but I'm an opinionated old cuss ). You'll note that they aren't used in competition any more. More research, and to some extent, rules modifications have rendered them a footnote in cycling history.

For smaller riders, the concept was, and remains perfectly valid.
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Old 11-26-08, 09:52 AM   #19
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For TT bikes, it was a fad, and a poor idea IMO (but I'm an opinionated old cuss ). You'll note that they aren't used in competition any more. More research, and to some extent, rules modifications have rendered them a footnote in cycling history.

For smaller riders, the concept was, and remains perfectly valid.
Basically correct. I have had two funny bikes, the Team Fuji with a 650 front wheel and a Nashbar Aero Sprint with a 24" front wheel.

I notice very little difference with the Fuji. With the Aero Sprint, however, the fact that the front wheel was rotating at a higher rpm was noticeable. Both bikes are a lot of fun to ride, particularly when you are all warmed up and get into that "speed kills" zone riding down the highway. The lower front end is fine for me because I don't suffer from back problems or old man ailments and like to ride low. Climbing, however, is more difficult.

I sold the Aero Sprint on CL to a very nice young guy, about my son's age, a graphic artist from California who shows his work in Scottsdale. He was crazy about the design aspects and had no intention to turn it into a FG/SS, but he did show me the absolutely beautiful and new Panasonic track bike he had in his jeep.



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Old 11-26-08, 10:42 AM   #20
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The Nashbar reminds me a lot of the Nikshiki that Steven posted from the dallas CL above. Same seller who I picked the 3Rensho up from.

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Old 11-26-08, 01:28 PM   #21
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One thing I've noticed about East Hill's bikes is the fork rake is s-o-o-o- long. Very stretched out, like a touring bike. Is there something about the geometry of small frames that requires the builders to put on those forks - stretches out the wheelbase to keep a small bike from being too twitchy? Moves the wheel out a bit to avoid toe overlap?
I had not paid much attention until you pointed it out--but they do all have a long fork rake, don't they?

My guess would be the toe overlap problem is responsible for a lot of it, and also to prevent extreme twitchiness.

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Old 11-26-08, 01:41 PM   #22
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Late this summer I picked up a Nashbar areo from CL... 100$ I couldn't pass it up.
it looked like this just a little smaller and with a few different components.



Now it looks like this... blast to ride, 6 gears, 2 brakes 1 brake lever, 18.5 lbs. everything you need, nothing you don't.





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Old 11-26-08, 03:11 PM   #23
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I am 5'0" tall (that's if I haven't shrunk over the years).

My bikes are between 46-48cms.

No offense taken, it's a legitimate question!

East Hill
It's true then - all the best things do come in the smallest parcels!
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Old 11-26-08, 05:32 PM   #24
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The thing, to me atleast, about those old TT bikes is that they were more aesthetically pleasing than these new ones, and also weren't substantially taller than their counterpart road bikes. Nowadays the TT and Tri bikes you see have such high bottom brackets to count for their high seats, and what seems like an even more extreme seat->handlebar drop than they did in the 80's/90's. Sure, the frames truly ARE more aerodynamic, but, if someone was to make a frame like that again, only out of carbon, they could probably make it equally as aerodynamic, if not more with it technically being lower to the ground. Maybe I'm a young-old-fart for thinking all of this, but, I like the older TT bikes much more, and wish they were still being used competitively.
Either way, the idea of different wheels fore and aft for SMALL sizes is interesting. Though conversions to dual 700c would look quite funny. Actually, it might make it look like a modern compact frame...
-Gene-
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Old 11-26-08, 07:06 PM   #25
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My wife's custom fit 24" wheeled Seven. Roger
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