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Old 11-26-08, 07:01 PM   #1
luker
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noisy delta brakes

Amazing brakes. finish is extraordinary, inside and out. the level of refinement of just about everything is astonishing.

And they sound just like all of the lost souls trapped in Purgatory. I have never heard such a complete cacaphony from a bicycle before. My lovely bethrothed almost fell off the first time I applied 'em today. Heck, I almost fell off. Dogs howled. Cats ran in fear. Drivers swerved. I am not kidding, this was the most noise that I have ever heard coming from a bicycle. Or a motorcycle, for that matter.





Anyone have any idea what I might have done wrong?
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Old 11-26-08, 07:25 PM   #2
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Sounds juuuuuuuust right.
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Old 11-26-08, 08:19 PM   #3
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make sure you toe in the brake pads, it makes all the difference in the world.
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Old 11-26-08, 08:25 PM   #4
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As my GM dealer said to me recently...




"They all do that"
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Old 11-26-08, 08:41 PM   #5
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Luker,
First thing I did after setting up the deltas was to take the pads etc. out and sanded down a good
mm or two. The pads were old and rather dry, I think that the rubber compound on these tended to
harden and thus squeal like a stuck pig. I bought some newer pads and they're better but not
what I'd call quiet. I'm looking to find out what version of Kool Stops will fit the Delta brake shoes.

Of course you could ride with someone who has Modolo Sinterized brakes, make your Deltas seem silent as the grave.

Marty
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Old 11-26-08, 09:13 PM   #6
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Maybe you haven't heard the Weinmanns on my Raleigh Super Course. In the interest of science, we should trade.
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Old 11-26-08, 09:20 PM   #7
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You should try v-brake pad/shoes , they should give you the right spacing and make less noise.
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Old 11-26-08, 10:38 PM   #8
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is a systematic error of the delta brake then?

but they are soooo pretty.

"Maybe you haven't heard the Weinmanns on my Raleigh Super Course. In the interest of science, we should trade."

no. I have heard squealing brakes since I was 12 (thassa lotta years) and I have never heard noises like this. it is absolutely unbelievable. I could not curse anyone with that.

So...the brakes adjust vertically. Will this make any difference in the level of noise, do you think?
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Old 11-26-08, 10:55 PM   #9
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Welcome to the club!

The brake pads are adjusted both up & down via the nut and

toe-in/toe-out, (Allen screws) at least on the 1st actually 2nd gen.

My own squeal as a stuck pig also, I however am too lazy to do the job.

Quickdraw and lotek both have the right ideas; enjoy!


Regards,
J T


PS Keep both eyes on the "cover plates", they tend to develop "legs".

Last edited by J T CUNNINGHAM; 11-26-08 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 11-26-08, 11:20 PM   #10
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I agree it's probably more a toe-in problem than anything. I've found Deltas are very picky about toe-in, just a little wear causes them to squeal. At least they're easy to adjust.

You might try these. I have no experience with them but I've had the link for a while. I read somewhere that you can take the pads out of the holders and put them in the Delta holders with some minor trimming.
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Old 11-27-08, 12:28 AM   #11
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thanks to the collective, ah, guruhood here at BF. Got 'em working perfectly, at least for a little while. The pads I used were, I think, campy C-Record, but they had been lightly used and the curved ends trimmed (the part in the brake holder) to be square. Maybe they were in old Record holders or something. I filed off the glaze, and filed in a little toe while I was at it. I also filed in the middle sipe, hoping to get a little more give in the brake shoes. Then I used the two grub screws to dial in some more toe. And I corrected my too loose headset. While I was at that, I adjusted the too-loose bottom bracket (not related to the problem, I guess...but it was rattling...) And I set the body about 1 cm above the top of the tire. It was nearly at the tire surface when I got 'em from whomever.

no squeaky. not a peep. nothing to hear but my chattering teeth as I rode into the north wind.

Thanks a million.
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Old 11-27-08, 12:43 AM   #12
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Several years ago I came up beside a rider who had a beautiful old set of Record Deltas on a vintage Bianchi. That was the first and only time I have ever seen a set of them them close up. I wish I knew what he had done to his considering the horrible reports from everyone in this thread, but I can assure you that while we rode together for a at least a few miles his were indeed silent - and yes, we did have to brake on several occasions, both abruptly and to slow for traffic lights. During that ride, he commented with surprise at the fact that my old Mafac brakes were not squealing - as he assumed they all did, but I now wish I had heard of the Delta noise phenomena before so I could have inquired about his own bicycle magic. So for what it is worth... yes, there is some way too silence Deltas.

Do you think it could possibly be the type of rims which you are using... or perhaps their width which may be throwing off the optimum pad contact? Another thought (and no offense intended)... are yours in perfect and internally well lubed condition. From what I have read, some versions were particularly "fussy" if there was any grit at all inside the mechanism's cover.

Beyond this, I find almost all vintage (NR/SR era) Campy brake pads are either simply a very hard rubber compound to begin with or are just excessively dried out from age. I've toyed with some using fine sand paper to very carefully set a perfect "new" surface to an older pad - even for pads showing only minimal wear, if any at all. This has helped "somewhat", but I have never been thrilled with the performance of any older Campy pads.

Perhaps finding a modern replacement may do the trick. However, as I recall, the Deltas had a unique array for the pads and holders involving stand-alone wheel guides (those rim alignment finger grip thingies), and spacers, etc., and the angle of pad approach to a rim could only be adjusted very moderately even with the original pads and holder assembly. So, I would suspect it may be difficult to find a perfectly fitting modern replacement holder & pad - and especially with just the right depth. How very sad if this is in fact the case, since I really do love the look of those brakes!

Please do share with us all if/when you discover the perfect remedy! There must be some solution out there. My ears have told me this is possible.

Good Luck!
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Old 11-27-08, 12:39 PM   #13
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The rims are campy victory strada. They are a very age-appropriate simple tubular box rim with almost square sides. You'd think, as much as campy now tries to make an integrated parts group, that they would work perfectly with deltas. Well, after I shaped the pads with a file, they seem to work perfectly. I do not have a lot of faith that they will not get noisier as they bed in and lose their toe, though. I fear that I may get similar results from all of my carefully hoarded campy brake pads. Or maybe the file takes enough off that they'll work fine.

The brakes are in very good working order after a little overhaul. They are the earlier, three-pivot model, and this may be part of the original problem. An interesting side note...the cable adjusters were stuck badly, and the former owner did his brake pad adjustment by screwing in the little set screws on the side of the pad holder. The shoes were pressed more than half-way out of the holder. This strikes me as a sort of dangerous adjustment method.

I'm going to do a writeup on the whole parts group and bicycle after we get done murdering and devouring the turkeys.
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Old 11-27-08, 12:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotek View Post
Luker,


Of course you could ride with someone who has Modolo Sinterized brakes, make your Deltas seem silent as the grave.

Marty
Marty , i have a set of modolos & They squeal at HIGH pitch like you cannot believe . actually the front only . any solution to "quiet" them down a bit .
Cheers
T
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Old 11-27-08, 02:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luker View Post
Amazing brakes. finish is extraordinary, inside and out. the level of refinement of just about everything is astonishing.

And they sound just like all of the lost souls trapped in Purgatory. I have never heard such a complete cacaphony from a bicycle before. My lovely bethrothed almost fell off the first time I applied 'em today. Heck, I almost fell off. Dogs howled. Cats ran in fear. Drivers swerved. I am not kidding, this was the most noise that I have ever heard coming from a bicycle. Or a motorcycle, for that matter.





Anyone have any idea what I might have done wrong?
On my V's 3 sets of pads, toe in, out, up down, sanded rim and pads and still sounds like something coming up out of hell.

The good news is no need to add a miracle bell for the MUP when the Airzound is too much for the situation. Peds on the mup run when I hit the brakes when I come up on them. My wife knows I'm home and opens the door for me.
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Old 11-27-08, 02:39 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by soderbiker View Post
Marty , i have a set of modolos & They squeal at HIGH pitch like you cannot believe . actually the front only . any solution to "quiet" them down a bit .
Cheers
T
I've only found one method of quieting down Modolo Scinterized brakes, don't use them.
I replaced mine with non sinterized brake pads.

Marty
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Old 11-27-08, 02:43 PM   #17
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Braking is highly over-rated, which is why I run DA AX on my only 'bought new' bike.
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Old 11-27-08, 03:21 PM   #18
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It's how you've set them up...

A word of encouragement...keep adusting the brake shoe toe-in and angle of attack...study the brake shoe mounts so you really understand how they adjust. Just so you know, I recently built up a classic era frame using C-Record Deltas. They were noisy at first (your description of the shrill sound is perfect), but after a reasonable break-in period and careful adjusting, they now run silent.

BTW, I recently read that many who've criticized the stopping power of Delta brakes may have been using too narrow rims. Apparently, Campagnolo recommended 20mm width rims, no narrower. I'm not saying they'll stop you on a dime, but they work flawlessly for me.
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