dbakl

Me too, been collecting French bits lately just so I have them if I need them. And I agree, a headset or bottom bracket should last almost forever if properly cared for. I've rebuilt bikes from the 50s where everything is still going strong. Other than the threads, French is the same as English, so swapping spindles for a different crank is no big deal.

dbakl

The rear derailler and hubs look updated to me as I recall.

tingjunkie

Ok, progress. (Or a step back depending on how you look at it.) Talked to the seller tonight to confirm the appointment tomorrow. He said it looks like the Moto has Suntour parts. Another indication of an 80's model. So, now that I have that evidence, it raises a couple more questions...

1) If it's in good condition (he says it's good, but we'll see), and it fits well, is it worth 2 bills? Keep in mind that I am not asking from the standpoint of a collector, but someone who just wants a fairly light, dependable bike. Since it's not 531 and Campy, would I be better off finding a decent Nishiki or Panasonic (or equivalent) for a tad cheaper?

2) If I've followed the posts correctly so far, I'm assuming the bike has more modern Japanese/English threading and sizing? What about the BB and headset? Did Suntour ever make French sized parts?

3) Any online catalogs which show 80's Grand Records and their specs? All I could find is an '84 (if I remember correctly) which does not list the GR at all. (edit: ok, found a '79 catalog which lists Shimano parts. Hmmm.)

Thanks again. This community has been so helpful!

dbakl

If the choice is a French bike with Japanese components or a Japanese bike with the same components I'd guess the Japanese bike would be all round "better" if the European connection is not important.

Keep in mind the Europeans sold MILLIONS of bikes in the bike boom of the 70s. If that's not the bike you want, keep looking, there's another one somewhere around the corner. Or go for the yellow one on ebay if it fits.

Or if all Japanese works for you, they made great products.

Treks are highly regarded, and came 531 and Campagnolo.

I don't know what threading 80s Motobecanes used, my knowlege is mostly 70s, some 60s and 50s.

tingjunkie

As I said, I'm not a collector, though this could become a fun hobby in the future. Why do you think the Japanese would be better? Better frames, or is it just that the system as a whole works in greater Zen-like harmony?

dbakl

No, actually, it took quite awhile for the Japanese to build frames as sexy (zen-like harmony) looking as the Europeans (not to say they weren't completely functional and roadworthy). A Japanese bike is sized English, the modern standard, so you'd be avoiding French sizes and threads and compatibility issues, if any with an 80s French bike. Japanese components with work harmoniously on any frame.

I've been collecting for years and I've always avoided French bikes though I have a few. But now I'm tiring on the typical all-Campagnolo bike, so looking to get more into the weirdness of other things. The one on ebay looks pretty nice, if the interest doesn't go wacky and the price too high.

tingjunkie

Unfortunately I need a 60-63cm frame, so the eBay bike wouldn't work. A little difficult finding a big selection of vintage road bikes in my size.

dbakl

Ouch, yeah, that limits your selection right off the bat!

Blue Order

If you're up to building a bike from the frameset up, there's a 62 cm Gitane Tour de France frameset on eBay right now.

tingjunkie

Ok Moto experts. If any of you can give me confirmation on question 2) that's probably my biggest concern at this time. 531 and Campy would have been enticing enough for me to deal with non-standard sizing/threading, but if I would have to worry about this on a later model, then it's simply not wort it to me.

Is there any easy way to check this without dismantleing the bike when I see it tomorrow?

tingjunkie

Ack! More French threading, but thanks for the link though!

dbakl

Here's a 531 Trek in 60cm, good start for a bike if you want to learn to build:

https://cgi.ebay.com/Trek-520-Cirrus-...1%7C240%3A1318

wrk101

+1 Go for an 80s Trek or an 80s Japanese bike. The Japanese made some great bikes in the 80s, they have standard parts, and can be found at a reasonable (low) cost.

Lets see, I currently have a 1982 Univega, a 1983 Univega, a 1984 Lotus and a 1984 Fuji.

top506

FWIW, my '79 moto Grand Sprint has a Sguio (sic) SWISS thread BB.
Top

unworthy1

question #2: there were JP parts made with both French and Swiss threading, as top506 says Sugino made a Swiss BB...but they're all fairly rare. The good news is that *most* JP products are clearly marked: the BB should say something like "35MM x 1" and the stem quill, once removed, should say "22.0mm" if it's FR threading. The '82/3 Moto I have has a Nervar (looks just like a Stronglight) BB with Swiss threading, I worked on the exact same BB on an '80s Gitane. If the Moto is a great ride at a great price, I would not be scared of either the BB or the less difficult HS and stem issues: you can install any 1" HS and sand down any 1" quill stem to fit the FR fork, just have to keep the FR locknut...or you can even swap in a new/vintage fork with ISO threading. And if the ride's great you can treat it (and yourself) to a Phil BB, since Phil still makes Swiss (and FR) rings for their BBs...bless them!
But as other say: hard to beat the '80s JP bikes, and Treks, for *value*, plus ease of wrenching and upgrading since there are so many parts options that just thread in/on with no cludging required.

tingjunkie

Ok, back from my trip. The Moto was, in a word... crap. Banged up 80's components all the way, scratched up frame, rust inside seat tube, and the quick release seat post was shot and couldn't even hold the saddle straight. Fuji's were a little better, but lower models with non-chromo steel. I couldn't even really get mad at the guy for making me go all the way to outer Brooklyn. I think he was just that clueless.

Oh well. It was still fun to learn about. Thanks to everyone again for all the great info! At least this thread really helped me to decide that I want something Japanese. wrk101- is that list of bikes you posted stuff you have for sale in my size, or were you just bragging!?!

dbakl

Another, 60cm:

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bik/943588436.html

Bikedued

Damn, that's a shame. The Grand Record I found by accident is about 1/3 done. I have all of the Campy components now. Finding a nice set of 70's wheels may be impossible though. I may just go with a set of nice Araya 700's and get it over with. Needs paint and decals too. A clean/functional Grand Record is a beautiful thing to behold. Hopefully mine will do the name justice.

My favorite GR to look at it when I get discouraged!! What a fine looking bike!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/strongl...7605076156132/



Let me take some pics of the SR tomorrow, and I'll get back to you. It's almost too nice to ride in Winter though.,,,,BD

canonizer

tingjunkie, I have a 60cm Trek 531 frame with a mishmash of components from the mid 80s that's too big for me if you're interested. New Rims, new rubber. Not a pristine bike but a very good rider.

You asked about nyc. PM me ifyou're interested in pics or coming for a ride.

Motofan

Just a few comments about 1980's Motos - I own 2 1982 models, a 1977, and a 1976. I have experience with a few others. Here's the deal:
Late 70's - Early 80's French-made Motos ALMOST ALL have French threaded headsets, Swiss-threaded BB's, English threaded freewheels, English pedal threads and French stems - 22 mm diameter, not 22.2. Neither I nor my LBS mechanic have ever seen a Motobecane with a French threaded BB (although I don't have significant experience with Le Champions, so maybe that's why).
ONLY the Taiwan made Motos from the early 80's will be standard ISO or English threaded throughout.

There will be exceptions to these generalizations, but the above summarizes what you are likely to find.

I have been told that a Swiss threaded BB shell can be rethreaded to English because of the slightly larger English thread diameter and the fact that the threads run in the same direction LH on one side, RH on the other, UNLIKE French threads where both sides are RH. Never tried it myself, but it's something to think about.