iab

I know very little about Paramounts, I'm a bit of an Italian fanatic. My BIL has decided he wants a Paramount and has asked me to help. He wants to build it up as a touring bike - front/rear panniers, bags, etc.

I have figured out the P15 was the touring model but it seems Schwinn called it something else in the 60s. I could be wrong, that is why I am asking for some help.

This is what he wants (although he may not know it )
High quality lugged steel frame
Relaxed geometry
Eyelets for racks/panniers
Can handle a triple
Any time-frame, 1950-present

Also, be forewarned he may want to "upgrade" it to STI or ergo.

What should I be looking for?

Picchio Special

Schwinn didn't really make the equivalent of the P-15 (or P-10) in the 60's. But the P-12 and P-13 racing models used virtually the same frame that would later become the P-15 and P-10. Those frames (even including the later P-15) weren't really designed as full touring bikes - i.e., they weren't meant to take a full touring load, provide heel-strike clearance for panniers, etc. In the 60's, there was also a P-11 "tourist" model that came standard with upright bars and a mattress saddle. The frame was similar, though, to the P-12 and P-13, but might have been designed with a bit more fender clearance (I owned a 60's P-11 but never fully measured it for comparison purposes, and in any case you should be able to get fenders onto a 60's P-12 or P13, and they do have eyelets). Any of those bikes could be converted into a nice "day" or "credit card" tourer, but none is particularly well suited for a long-distance, full-touring set-up, IMO. Someone might have managed to make it work decently and have some hints. In any case, any (non-track) Paramount frame from the 60's will be as good a starting point as a P-15 or P-10 frame from the 70's.

bikingshearer 

I have what I believe is a P-11 "tourist" from 1967 (SN F711), size 25" (64 cm, give or take) and I can tell you it has plenty of heal clearance and tons of fender clearance to go with the nice, longish wheelbase. However, I agree that it is not a great candidate for fully loaded panniers for the reasons stated by Picchio Special. But it is comfy and handles well, and would be great for credit card touring. It might also be a candidate for loaded touring using a BOB or other trailer.

Handling a triple? No problem. I'm running a Ritchey (built by Sugino) 110x74 BCD with 46/36/26 chainrings. Clearance for it is no porblem at all. The only issue is that, because the RD cable runs on top of the bottom bracket instead of underneath it, you have to make sure you get a FD meant for a touring/mountain bike triple, or else you won't be able to get the cage low enough for optimal shifting.

Threading? All standard English threads - nothing at all funky. Any English threaded bottom bracket, new or old, will thread in nicely, as will any standard non-French derailleur and any English threaded 1" headset.

Brakes? An issue on the P-11/tourer, at least mine. Paramounts of that vintage and ilk require nutted bolt brakes, not recessed (unless you want to drill 'em out ) and further require brakes with a reeeeeaaaally loooong reach, especially in the back. The old "standard" brakes with 57mm reach? Not long enough, as I found out the hard way when I mounted a lovely pair of Suntour Superbes. The really long Tektros that Rivendell sells as "Silvers" and that other folks also sell (Velo Orange comes to mind) are long enough, but have recessed bolts only. Rivendell has Dia-Compe center pulls that are long enough, and the rear brake is nutted, but the front is recessed. That is the route I eventually went, although I somehow managed to get a nutted front brake. If you use the Dia-Compes, get rid of the pads immediately and replace them with Kool Stops or Mathausers or something similar. Trust me, just do it. This is the voice of shorts-soiling experience speaking here.

This solution comes with another problem, though: making sure you figure in some form of quick-release for the brakes, because the yolk cables do not serve that function on Dia-Compes (like Weinmanns and unlike Mafacs and cantilevers). That means no Shimano levers unless you find cable hangers with built-in quick releases. Campy brifters and Cane Creek non-brifter Campy look-alike levers (available from Rivendell) have a quick release button built into the levers and they work well. The Dia-Compe non-aero levers Rivendell has a little swing-out arm on the top of the lever itself, and it does the job, but (1) it tends to work itself loose on its own, which is kind of annoying, and (2) the hoods are pretty crappy and do not hold up well where the cable enters the levers. I am about to replace the Dia Compe levers with the Cane Creek ones.

Also, Paramounts from the 1960's are likely to be very light in the braze-on department (but you knew that, didn't you?). I cheated and had a bunch of stuff added when I had mine repainted by Ed Litton. But you might end up minus braze ons for bottle cages, downtube shifter/cable stop bosses, and bottom bracket cable guide. You will probably get top tube brake cable housing stops, but they are on the bottom and off to the right. There should also be a braze on cable housing stop for the rear derailleur. But you may have to hunt down bolt-on goodies for the other stuff. It is all available, but be aware going in what you might be needing.

Running modern componentry on a '60s Paramount? You'll have to spread the rear triangle from 120mm to 130mm - not a biggie, but regardless of what the Great God Sheldon said, have an experienced shop/builder do it. It's what I did with my mine. (And you can have them chase the threads and make sure the head lugs and bottom bracket are properly faced and everything is properly aligned at the same time, and for not a whole lot of money.) Personally, for riding purposes, I think the older frames and the newer components is the bee's knees. I say: go for it.

Is it worth it? Oh yeeeeessssssss. The combination of the nostalgia factor and the sweet all-day-long ride will leave your BIL smiling. So if that is not the desired effect, get him a Varsinental instead. And let half the air out of the tires.

iab

Thanks for the info. Is there any particular vintage to avoid? Like post '84 Cinellis build quality is lower than pre '84.