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Old 01-27-09, 11:45 AM   #1
tmh657
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Tange Prestige vs Columbus SL tubes

I am looking at a couple of older steel bikes and wanted any opinion on these 2 steel tubes. As far as I can find they are similar but would one be any better than the other assuming the bike geometry is about the same?, as in aggressive race geometry.
The bikes are Schwinn Prologue,<Tange> and Schwinn Circuit, <Columbus SL>
Thanks
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Old 01-27-09, 12:43 PM   #2
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Both are superbe riding bikes. If they're the same size buy which ever is in the best condition.

The Prologue uses Tange Prestige tubing. Its one of the lightest tubes ever made and is probably most ideal for smaller frames or lighter riders.
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Old 01-27-09, 01:03 PM   #3
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both are superbe riding bikes. If they're the same size buy which ever is in the best condition.

The prologue uses tange prestige tubing. Its one of the lightest tubes ever made and is probably most ideal for smaller frames or lighter riders.
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Old 01-27-09, 01:40 PM   #4
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I have a Columbus SL bike and one w/ Prestige - both are great and I can tell no differences in the ride. Either is excellent.
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Old 01-27-09, 03:01 PM   #5
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SL tubeset was about 1670 grams and Tange Prestige 1987 grams. i got this info from a bike shops tubing chart from the 1980s someone posted. there aren't many tubesets lighter than SL. i've ridden a Zunow with Prestige and it was pretty nice stuff. the way the builder puts the bike together also makes a big difference.
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Old 01-27-09, 03:04 PM   #6
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Thanks for the info. The Prestige tube bike is a 56cm and the Columbus tube bike is a 58cm. Either will fit me. Hmmm, maybe buy both. Now that's my best idea all day.
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Old 01-27-09, 04:38 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by brooklyn_bike View Post
SL tubeset was about 1670 grams and Tange Prestige 1987 grams. i got this info from a bike shops tubing chart from the 1980s someone posted. there aren't many tubesets lighter than SL.


Interesting. Another fact to consider is the rich history Columbus SL has in european road racing. Most all (but not all) of the Italian frames builders who built bikes for the pros in the 80's used Columbus SL. Several years ago a friend sent me scanned copies of a Tommasini brochure from late 80's to early 90's and the SL was the lightest frames material in the entire line-up of steel frames. Thats compared to SLX, SPX and the other Columbus tubes for a given frame size in steel. Thats not to say that it was better than the others, just lighter. It was an interesting read, not to mention the beautiful bikes that were in that brochure.

But on the other hand, I heard Tange 'Prestige' was some great stuff, usually found on some of the more expensive bikes to come out of Japan. I have an old 'Centurian' bike dated to '85 and it has Tange '2' tubing and that bike feels about the same weight as my Tommasini 'comp' (competizione) which is a '91 with Columbus SL. Both bikes ride great but I would have to give the edge to the Centurian for comfort on long rides.
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Old 01-27-09, 04:48 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by tmh657 View Post
I am looking at a couple of older steel bikes and wanted any opinion on these 2 steel tubes. As far as I can find they are similar but would one be any better than the other assuming the bike geometry is about the same?, as in aggressive race geometry.
The bikes are Schwinn Prologue,<Tange> and Schwinn Circuit, <Columbus SL>
Thanks
Tange Prestige is a heat treated tube and drawn thinner than Columbus SL (0.7/0.4 VS 0.9/0.6 for SL). They're both very nice but all else equal, SL will make a stiffer, albeit marginally heavier frame than Prestige.

N.B. The extra weight of the tubeset could easily be offset elsewhere -- e.g. slightly lighter tire for example.
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Old 01-27-09, 04:54 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by brooklyn_bike View Post
SL tubeset was about 1670 grams and Tange Prestige 1987 grams. i got this info from a bike shops tubing chart from the 1980s someone posted. there aren't many tubesets lighter than SL. i've ridden a Zunow with Prestige and it was pretty nice stuff. the way the builder puts the bike together also makes a big difference.
I'm thinking that perhaps this weight comparison was between a full-length Prestige set and an "A" or "B" length SL set. Prestige tubes are thinner than SL with the same outer dimensions so for any given length Prestige will be lighter than SL.

Prestige was Tange's lightest tubeset. Ishiwata 017 was essentially the same spec as Prestige, and 015 was even thinner (0.6/0.35 vs 0.7/0.4 for Prestige).
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Old 01-27-09, 04:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Wino Ryder View Post
I have an old 'Centurian' bike dated to '85 and it has Tange '2' tubing and that bike feels about the same weight as my Tommasini 'comp' (competizione) which is a '91 with Columbus SL. Both bikes ride great but I would have to give the edge to the Centurian for comfort on long rides.
No surprise there -- Champion #2 is an exact clone of Columbus SL, right down to the rifling in the steer tube!
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Old 01-27-09, 07:18 PM   #11
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i'm not sure how perfectly accurate that info is. i think they mention it was "compiled from sales catalogues and correspondences with tube manufacturers and importers in the early 80's." here's the link that was originally posted:

http://www.desperadocycles.com/The_L...per_Tubing.htm
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Old 01-27-09, 08:07 PM   #12
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Here's a Nishiki "Team Issue" made of tange prestige, weight is 21 lbs. Full Dura Ace (6 spd), stock.
I flipped it a few years ago.

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Old 01-27-09, 08:26 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by brooklyn_bike View Post
i'm not sure how perfectly accurate that info is. i think they mention it was "compiled from sales catalogues and correspondences with tube manufacturers and importers in the early 80's." here's the link that was originally posted:

http://www.desperadocycles.com/The_L...per_Tubing.htm
That is the weight of the 'uncut' tube sets, I believe. Miter, cut and add lugs, and depending on who touches the torch, and what bits are chosen, your results may vary wildly.

The internets is great for (mis-dis)information.
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Old 01-28-09, 10:29 AM   #14
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Wow, HUGE coincidence here. I was in a used book store the other day and found a March 1987 issue of Bicycle Guide Magazine. I took it home just for the pictures and ads. There is an article called:
STEEL SHOWDOWN: Columbus SL vs. Tange Prestige

They had Bruce Gordon build two identical frames, one SL, the other Prestige. Both shared identical geometry and were built up with brand new Shimano 600.There were no identifying marks for the testers to know which frame material they were riding. (The bikes, by the way, are absolutely stunning!)

Matallurgically, and on paper, the Prestige bike was the winner. But all the testers prefered the SL bike. And they all thought they were choosing the Prestige bike!

Anyway, it was a pretty interesting read.
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Old 01-28-09, 11:13 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by brooklyn_bike View Post
i'm not sure how perfectly accurate that info is. i think they mention it was "compiled from sales catalogues and correspondences with tube manufacturers and importers in the early 80's." here's the link that was originally posted:

http://www.desperadocycles.com/The_L...per_Tubing.htm
Interesting. My Tange Catalog (which unfortunately predates Prestige tubing) gives different specifications for the Champion tubing series (and the chart in my Paterek manual agrees with the Tange catalog's specs).

Note that Champion #2 has essentially the same specifications as Columbus SL.

Last edited by JohnDThompson; 01-28-09 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 01-28-09, 04:01 PM   #16
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Columbus is generally more desireable, being a genuine, high-quality racing tubing, but I would be extremely surprised if you could tell any difference in the actual riding. I've ridden both, and other then weight issues, steel is pretty much steel, assuming everything else is equal.
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Old 01-28-09, 04:31 PM   #17
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Columbus is generally more desireable, being a genuine, high-quality racing tubing, but I would be extremely surprised if you could tell any difference in the actual riding. I've ridden both, and other then weight issues, steel is pretty much steel, assuming everything else is equal.
Yes, but no. I'd say that when you get to the higher end steels (Reynolds, Columbus, Tange, True-Temper, Dedacchai (sp?), Vitus, Ishiwata, Miyata's proprietary stuff, and the like) the caliber of the builder makes more difference than the brand of the tubing. Note I said the brand, not the model - a frame built of 531 touring-specific tubing is simply not going to feel the same as something built of 953 or the latest and lightest Columbus steel even if the geometry is spot-on identical. But for tube sets from different companies but of similar thicknesses meant for similar applications, the person designing it and the person wielding the torch will have more to say about how the bike rides and feels than the name on the tubing sticker.

There may a few exceptions at the very outer reaches of the high-zoot steel lines that are made for very specific applications and for pro racers (for example, it seems like Columbus makes specific tubes for use on specific days of the week or for specfic ambient humidity levels), but I'd stand by my statement for the vast majority of frames to which any of us are likely to have access.
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Old 01-28-09, 06:19 PM   #18
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.Hi,
.
I wonder what '85 Centurion you have with Tange #2 tubing,
an Elite RS? They are all wonderful
to ride, however, and that's what counts most to me.
.


Hi 'A.Winthrop', according to the shimano date codes my Centurian is an '85, as best as I can figure, and its an 'Elite RS'. When I first acquired this bike it was in Jan '08 (a year ago) and posted it on T-Mars Centurian Database thread. The bike was all original down to the black plastic perforated bar tape and Shimano 600ex clip & strap pedals, and according to Sheldon's web-site on Centurians in collaberation with you, the paint was "ice blue".

The bike was in very very good condition with only a few superficial scratches in the paint. I posted a thread with a pic of this bike around the same time (right after I got it) and even T-Mar suggested (but could not confirm) that it was most likely an '85. At any rate thats about all I know, except for the component mix on the bike, which I have no doubt is original down to the Araya 700c champaigne anodised wheels that matched the Dia-compe 'Royal S' brakes and Sugino double crankset. It was really interesting the way Centurian spec'd their bikes.

I am no expert on any of this, but I do like to ride them.
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