Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    11
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Miyata 610 Project

    Hi everyone!

    I have a Miyata 610 that I purchased a few months ago and since then I've been purchasing new parts for it, part by part. It also was stripped of its part and was powder coated. Anyway, I'm going to list the parts that I purchased

    Shimano Ultegra Rear Derailleur (6600 GS) {On Bike**
    Shimano Ultegra Front Triple Derailleur (6600) {On Bike**
    Shimano 105 Bottom Bracket (5600) {On Bike**
    Shimano Ultegra Triple Crankset (6603) {On Bike**
    Shimano Dura Ace Down-tube shifters (7800)
    Front and Rear 36H Shimano Dura Hubs (7800)
    2 36 H Mavic Open Pro 700C
    2 Shimano Br-550 Cantilever Brakes {On Bike**
    Shimano Ultegra 10 Speed Chain
    Quill Stem Adapter {On Bike**
    FSA Headset {On Bike**
    FSA Omega Comact Drop Handlebars {On Bike**

    I think thats about it. So everything was going swimmingly until I noticed that my new brakes doesn't really have proper contact with my new 700c Open Pro rims. The 4/5 ths of the pad was touching the "braking part" of the rim and about 1/5th of it was not touching it. The 1/5th part of the pad isn't touching the tire's sidewall because there's about a 1mm gap between the tire and brakepad. What should I do? I really want to use all the new parts that I purchased.

    Is there anything else I must know about upgrading this bike with modern parts?

    Thanks for your help.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    705
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ...so the brake pads just wont move down enough to contact the rim completely?

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    11
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Pretty Much. its pretty much the front wheel thats having that problem. The rear brakes are fine, the pads completely contact the rim but at its uppermost acceptable region. So its pretty much the front rims/brakes having this problem

  4. #4
    No lugs? No hugs. Exit.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    My Bikes
    '85 Miyata 310, '06 GT Performer
    Posts
    1,115
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This thread needs pics.
    1997 Vitali track, 1986 Cilo Swiss road, 2006 KHS Flite 100, 2009 top-secret track bike.

  5. #5
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Just gonna guess, frame was for 27" rims maybe?

  6. #6
    Hello zebede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Suncoast, Florida
    My Bikes
    BF Tikit, Dahon Speed TR, Mezzo I4
    Posts
    536
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I just refurbished a 1986 Miyata 610 and had a front brake issue. My bike originaly sold with 700c wheels. But I think the previous year the model had 27" . I beleive they used old forks.
    The orginal shimano cantis fit well, but modern Tektro 720s or Ornyx fit poorly. I ended up just polishing up the old brakes and replacing mounting bolts with something nicer. NOTE: The rear brake canti studs are just fine and I could use amy modern canti. While the originals were not in the same quality class as your other components when polished up they look great and work great.

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    11
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The original wheels were 27".

    That's a bummer that the forks won't work properly with new brakes and 700C rims. I still want to use my new stuff since I bought them. What about taking the fork to a machine ship and tell them to take out a few mm of the part where the fork connects to the rim? Will that be able to move my rim up a few mm so that my brakes will contact the rim properly?

  8. #8
    Senior Member ozneddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Gold Coast, Australia
    My Bikes
    Casati, ,Peugot,Mitchell,Raliegh,Nishiki
    Posts
    1,485
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thats a good question,I,m not going to say do it because I,m not an Industrial Engineer and I,m not sure if you would keep the forks integrity but because I,m assuming the dropouts are a good quality (poss Shimano?) I cant see why a few mil could,nt be milled out as long as there was sufficient area to remove it from,the only other option I can see is to aquire a front brake with a longer reach,the first option seems a bit overkill but its YOUR call ! there is alot more knowledgable ppl in here who will guide you in the right direction,I,m sure they will help you with it ,I wish you luck !

  9. #9
    Senior Member Grim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Atlanta
    My Bikes
    Cannondale T700s and a few others
    Posts
    2,992
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Did it have the Diacompe cantis with the post style pads? A LOT more adjustability in those. The 610 I had they cleaned up very nice and worked good.
    You cant have a signature unless it fits in this box

  10. #10
    Hello zebede's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Suncoast, Florida
    My Bikes
    BF Tikit, Dahon Speed TR, Mezzo I4
    Posts
    536
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    27" to 700c

    I've read that it is a 4 mm difference. The cantilever bosses are 4mm to high. I think these are your options. Not in any particular order.

    1. Have a frame builder move the bosses down or DIY.
    2. Try various cantilevers brakes that have more adjustability.
    3. Use long reach side pull brakes (not a bad idea).
    4. Purchase a quality set of 27" rims and build wheels with those.
    5. Modify a set of cantilever brakes to lower the brake shoe stud.
    6. Sell this frame and buy something like a new Surly LHT frame.

    I don't like the idea cutting the front fork drop outs, you would be ruining a classic vintage bike frame and compromising safety. Besides it wouldn't work on your rear horizontal dropouts.

    I had a beloved Trek 720 1985, that I bought new, that I soooo wanted to upgrade. But this brake issue just finally did it for me. I sold the bike in tact. It took more than a year to stumble across the Miyata 610 1986.
    Last edited by zebede; 03-02-09 at 06:51 PM. Reason: removed extrenous

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    My Bikes
    Surly CrossCheck, Miyata 310 (conversion)
    Posts
    854
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    pics are needed

    I have the same brakes on my cross check, i ran into a lil bit of an issue with travel. Which was due to the combination or wheels, brakes and spacing, i could not get enough tension to stop me properly or i couldn't open up the brakes to pull the wheel out. I ended solving this issue by using an inline adjuster on the front brake. You can also use spacers between the pads and canti's when you don't have enough travel.

    I think you need to take some pics so we can get a better look at whats going on, because i can't exactly picture it.

    But regardless! Sounds like it is going to be a great bike!! 610's rule!
    Last edited by Metricoclock; 03-02-09 at 07:02 PM.
    derailleur? I hardly know her
    http://a2bikegeek.wordpress.com/

  12. #12
    The Brutally Handsome Sizzle-Chest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Siberia
    Posts
    499
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i've had more than a few 27" frames with 700c wheels and it has never been an insurmountable issue, especially with cantis. it sounds like your willing to drop some bones for this bike based on that parts list, why not go with a custom set of v brakes from pauls, which allow so much adjustment up and down that you could literally run 26" wheels. not only that, but you would have some excellent touring brake power and brakes that are on-par with the rest of your setup, quality wise. you will need one of those pulley setups so your levers work.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/PAUL-COMPONENTS-...ts_Accessories
    "What kind of bike? I don't know, I'm not a bike scientist."

  13. #13
    Senior Member RobbieTunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,664
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzle-Chest View Post
    .. why not go with a custom set of v brakes ?..
    I agree with him. There is a lot of adjusting you can do before you should give up, and you may just need to get some parts of the brakes, not new brakes. You sound like you're only 1mm away from where you want to be, so the solution should be a small step, too.

    Robbie ♪♫♪...☻

    I'm not a doctor, but I watch them on TV.

    1982 Lotus Classique
    1987 D'Arienzo (Basso) SLX
    1995 Hot Tubes TT
    2006 Cinelli XLR8R-2
    2008 BMC Roadracer SL01
    2014 Wraith Hustle
    2014 Wraith Paycheck

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    705
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Instead of grinding the fork dropouts, what about grinding a little away from the slot in the brake calipers, just enough to let the pads move the amount you need?

  15. #15
    CroMosexual purevl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Murray, Ky
    Posts
    658
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by kramnnim View Post
    Instead of grinding the fork dropouts, what about grinding a little away from the slot in the brake calipers, just enough to let the pads move the amount you need?
    Bingo, that's exactly what I was going to say. The best solution would be to use a brake that gives you an adequate amount of adjustment, but if you are hellbent on using what you already bought, definitely modify the brake, not the frame. One is easily and cheaply replaceable while the other is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sizzle-Chest View Post
    why not go with a custom set of v brakes from pauls, which allow so much adjustment up and down that you could literally run 26" wheels.
    I would be quite interested to see any v-brake that would allow you to use it on a rim that is below the post.
    If wanting fair bike prices makes me a leftist I don't wanna be right.

  16. #16
    Senior Member RobbieTunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,664
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by kramnnim View Post
    Instead of grinding the fork dropouts, what about grinding a little away from the slot in the brake calipers, just enough to let the pads move the amount you need?
    I'm not smart enough to come up with that one, but I second that emotion.

    Robbie ♪♫♪...☻

    I'm not a doctor, but I watch them on TV.

    1982 Lotus Classique
    1987 D'Arienzo (Basso) SLX
    1995 Hot Tubes TT
    2006 Cinelli XLR8R-2
    2008 BMC Roadracer SL01
    2014 Wraith Hustle
    2014 Wraith Paycheck

  17. #17
    The Brutally Handsome Sizzle-Chest's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Siberia
    Posts
    499
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by purevl View Post
    I would be quite interested to see any v-brake that would allow you to use it on a rim that is below the post.
    Install them upside-down of course!

    So, what I meant to say is that with pauls brakes you can run 700c wheels on a 26" frame. Dumb point, but just trying to say they are versatile.
    Last edited by Sizzle-Chest; 03-03-09 at 09:37 PM.
    "What kind of bike? I don't know, I'm not a bike scientist."

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Kansai
    Posts
    1,694
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I had this exact problem on both my 85 Trek 620 and my wife's 85 Trek 720, trying to put modern canti brakes on them. Front only, and the problem seems to be that the canti studs are too close by modern standards.

    I fixed both of them by going to a smooth post type canti - on one bike, it was Tektro froglegs knockoffs and on the other VO grenouille brakes combined with judicious filing of the brake pad.

    Dia Compe 960, like these on ebay, came on the bike and worked on the 720, and if they could work there, they can work anywhere. On the 620, Shimano Deer Head M-700 cantis like these on ebay came on the bike, again a very tough fit.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Atlanta
    My Bikes
    1982 Schwinn Super Sport S/P, 1984 Miyata 610, 1985 Panasonic LX 1000
    Posts
    586
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Southerland's has a cantilever brake table that lists among other dimensions the center to center minimum distance ('A') from cantilever brake arm mounting bolt to brake post.

    Best are Gravity Research 'Rim Crushers' at 17mm and 'Pipe Crushers' at 15mm. Good luck. If you can find these budget $75 or more and have lots of patience.

    Next best are Shimano Deore LX Br-M550's at 19mm. These are hard to find but not expensive. They did the trick on my '83 Centurion Pro Tour converted from 27's to 700c's.

    Many, many here have reported success with Shimano BR-MC70's, first generation XT / Deerheads, whose dimension 'A' is 22mm. Although Southerlands itself mentions that despite what dimension 'A' measures, some cantilevers are more adjustable than others. Together with Salmon Kool Stops, These did the trick on my '84 Miyata 610, however, they were not quite adequate for the '83 Centurion Pro Tour.

    In the course of doing the Pro Tour, I went through about $110 on four different sets of brakes and pads not to mention numerous cables; and salvaged back around $60. It's a process.

    From the Pro-Tour 'process', I have two pair of BR-MC70's still to toss back, along with brand new salmon Kool-Stops. PM me if interested.

    PS--What I've learned about setup. Southerlands had the info, it just had to be dug it out.

    Draw an imaginary line from the center of your cantilever brake arm mounting bolt to the center of the brake post. Set up your cables so that this imaginary line is at 90 degrees to the straddle cable. Simple, right? I wish someone had told me this sooner, it would have spared so many straddle cables and nice new brake cables from getting trashed.
    Last edited by mrmw; 03-04-09 at 04:18 AM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Hull, QC
    Posts
    661
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What's so bad about 27"?

    I don't see too many drawbacks....tires are still easy to find.

  21. #21
    The Brave Descender High Fist Shin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    S.E. Pennsylvania
    My Bikes
    Univega Viva Touring, Cannondale Six/13
    Posts
    2,074
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by awc380 View Post
    What's so bad about 27"?

    I don't see too many drawbacks....tires are still easy to find.
    I agree. Unless you have a frameshop move the canti bosses down 4mm, you'll have a hard time making any canti's work. You can get a very nice set of 27" alloy wheels for about a Benjamin. See here:

    http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/wheels/630.html

    The WE277 5-/6-speed 27 inch Road Wheelsets should work nicely. These are single wall rims. If you want a box section rim, you'll have to pay a bit more for the WE279 Quando/Sun Sealed Bearing Wheelset.

    You've got lots of options.

    Dan
    In life there are no mistakes, only lessons. -Shin

  22. #22
    It's true, man.
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    North Texas
    My Bikes
    Cannondale T1000, Inbred SS 29er, Supercaliber 29er, Crescent Mark XX, Burley Rumba Tandem
    Posts
    2,727
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by kramnnim View Post
    Instead of grinding the fork dropouts, what about grinding a little away from the slot in the brake calipers, just enough to let the pads move the amount you need?

    This is what I did for a Miyata 310 with the same problem. Used a Dremel and a rotary file bit to lengthen the bottom of the slots a couple of mm. I just took off a little at a time till I had the clearance I needed.

    I never had a problem of any kind with them, other than the extra length did make the brakes not quite so strong, but they were still perfectly adequate to my uses for commuting.

  23. #23
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This is an interesting thread for me since i'm suffering through the same problem right now...

    Well i went through it before too, and settled with the cheapest shimano cantis at my local bike shop. We half-installed them before i bought them and it looked like they'd work fine. And they do work. Just not really well. And until now it sufficed. But now i just got a job hauling heavy loads on my bike and i'm concerned that they won't really be sufficient for what i'll be doing.

    I was going to just treat myself to a new long haul trucker frame, but recently realized that it would be way cheaper to have somebody weld new bosses on my frame/fork. i was quoted $80 for the whole deal. It would be nice to have solid brakes again, so i figure it's worth 80 dollars

    Has anybody done this? Why does it never seem to be discussed when this comes up? It seems it's cheaper than buying 3 different sets of brakes and hoping something works. Would anybody recommend that i drill out my frame for some long reach calipers instead? (the fork just has a small fender mount) The tires i have are as wide as they'll ever be anyway. i'm curious what other people think.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •