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Old 02-27-09, 04:21 PM   #1
ewynn949
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Miyata 610 Project

Hi everyone!

I have a Miyata 610 that I purchased a few months ago and since then I've been purchasing new parts for it, part by part. It also was stripped of its part and was powder coated. Anyway, I'm going to list the parts that I purchased

Shimano Ultegra Rear Derailleur (6600 GS) {On Bike**
Shimano Ultegra Front Triple Derailleur (6600) {On Bike**
Shimano 105 Bottom Bracket (5600) {On Bike**
Shimano Ultegra Triple Crankset (6603) {On Bike**
Shimano Dura Ace Down-tube shifters (7800)
Front and Rear 36H Shimano Dura Hubs (7800)
2 36 H Mavic Open Pro 700C
2 Shimano Br-550 Cantilever Brakes {On Bike**
Shimano Ultegra 10 Speed Chain
Quill Stem Adapter {On Bike**
FSA Headset {On Bike**
FSA Omega Comact Drop Handlebars {On Bike**

I think thats about it. So everything was going swimmingly until I noticed that my new brakes doesn't really have proper contact with my new 700c Open Pro rims. The 4/5 ths of the pad was touching the "braking part" of the rim and about 1/5th of it was not touching it. The 1/5th part of the pad isn't touching the tire's sidewall because there's about a 1mm gap between the tire and brakepad. What should I do? I really want to use all the new parts that I purchased.

Is there anything else I must know about upgrading this bike with modern parts?

Thanks for your help.
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Old 02-27-09, 05:19 PM   #2
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...so the brake pads just wont move down enough to contact the rim completely?
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Old 02-27-09, 07:44 PM   #3
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Pretty Much. its pretty much the front wheel thats having that problem. The rear brakes are fine, the pads completely contact the rim but at its uppermost acceptable region. So its pretty much the front rims/brakes having this problem
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Old 02-27-09, 08:21 PM   #4
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This thread needs pics.
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Old 02-28-09, 07:21 AM   #5
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Just gonna guess, frame was for 27" rims maybe?
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Old 02-28-09, 08:34 AM   #6
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I just refurbished a 1986 Miyata 610 and had a front brake issue. My bike originaly sold with 700c wheels. But I think the previous year the model had 27" . I beleive they used old forks.
The orginal shimano cantis fit well, but modern Tektro 720s or Ornyx fit poorly. I ended up just polishing up the old brakes and replacing mounting bolts with something nicer. NOTE: The rear brake canti studs are just fine and I could use amy modern canti. While the originals were not in the same quality class as your other components when polished up they look great and work great.
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Old 03-01-09, 03:54 AM   #7
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The original wheels were 27".

That's a bummer that the forks won't work properly with new brakes and 700C rims. I still want to use my new stuff since I bought them. What about taking the fork to a machine ship and tell them to take out a few mm of the part where the fork connects to the rim? Will that be able to move my rim up a few mm so that my brakes will contact the rim properly?
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Old 03-01-09, 05:01 AM   #8
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Thats a good question,I,m not going to say do it because I,m not an Industrial Engineer and I,m not sure if you would keep the forks integrity but because I,m assuming the dropouts are a good quality (poss Shimano?) I cant see why a few mil could,nt be milled out as long as there was sufficient area to remove it from,the only other option I can see is to aquire a front brake with a longer reach,the first option seems a bit overkill but its YOUR call ! there is alot more knowledgable ppl in here who will guide you in the right direction,I,m sure they will help you with it ,I wish you luck !
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Old 03-01-09, 08:44 AM   #9
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Did it have the Diacompe cantis with the post style pads? A LOT more adjustability in those. The 610 I had they cleaned up very nice and worked good.
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Old 03-02-09, 06:26 PM   #10
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27" to 700c

I've read that it is a 4 mm difference. The cantilever bosses are 4mm to high. I think these are your options. Not in any particular order.

1. Have a frame builder move the bosses down or DIY.
2. Try various cantilevers brakes that have more adjustability.
3. Use long reach side pull brakes (not a bad idea).
4. Purchase a quality set of 27" rims and build wheels with those.
5. Modify a set of cantilever brakes to lower the brake shoe stud.
6. Sell this frame and buy something like a new Surly LHT frame.

I don't like the idea cutting the front fork drop outs, you would be ruining a classic vintage bike frame and compromising safety. Besides it wouldn't work on your rear horizontal dropouts.

I had a beloved Trek 720 1985, that I bought new, that I soooo wanted to upgrade. But this brake issue just finally did it for me. I sold the bike in tact. It took more than a year to stumble across the Miyata 610 1986.

Last edited by zebede; 03-02-09 at 06:51 PM. Reason: removed extrenous
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Old 03-02-09, 06:45 PM   #11
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pics are needed

I have the same brakes on my cross check, i ran into a lil bit of an issue with travel. Which was due to the combination or wheels, brakes and spacing, i could not get enough tension to stop me properly or i couldn't open up the brakes to pull the wheel out. I ended solving this issue by using an inline adjuster on the front brake. You can also use spacers between the pads and canti's when you don't have enough travel.

I think you need to take some pics so we can get a better look at whats going on, because i can't exactly picture it.

But regardless! Sounds like it is going to be a great bike!! 610's rule!

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Old 03-02-09, 06:52 PM   #12
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i've had more than a few 27" frames with 700c wheels and it has never been an insurmountable issue, especially with cantis. it sounds like your willing to drop some bones for this bike based on that parts list, why not go with a custom set of v brakes from pauls, which allow so much adjustment up and down that you could literally run 26" wheels. not only that, but you would have some excellent touring brake power and brakes that are on-par with the rest of your setup, quality wise. you will need one of those pulley setups so your levers work.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PAUL-COMPONENTS-...ts_Accessories
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Old 03-02-09, 07:00 PM   #13
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.. why not go with a custom set of v brakes ?..
I agree with him. There is a lot of adjusting you can do before you should give up, and you may just need to get some parts of the brakes, not new brakes. You sound like you're only 1mm away from where you want to be, so the solution should be a small step, too.
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Old 03-02-09, 07:13 PM   #14
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Instead of grinding the fork dropouts, what about grinding a little away from the slot in the brake calipers, just enough to let the pads move the amount you need?
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Old 03-02-09, 09:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Instead of grinding the fork dropouts, what about grinding a little away from the slot in the brake calipers, just enough to let the pads move the amount you need?
Bingo, that's exactly what I was going to say. The best solution would be to use a brake that gives you an adequate amount of adjustment, but if you are hellbent on using what you already bought, definitely modify the brake, not the frame. One is easily and cheaply replaceable while the other is not.

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why not go with a custom set of v brakes from pauls, which allow so much adjustment up and down that you could literally run 26" wheels.
I would be quite interested to see any v-brake that would allow you to use it on a rim that is below the post.
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Old 03-02-09, 11:22 PM   #16
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Instead of grinding the fork dropouts, what about grinding a little away from the slot in the brake calipers, just enough to let the pads move the amount you need?
I'm not smart enough to come up with that one, but I second that emotion.
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Old 03-03-09, 09:33 PM   #17
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I would be quite interested to see any v-brake that would allow you to use it on a rim that is below the post.
Install them upside-down of course!

So, what I meant to say is that with pauls brakes you can run 700c wheels on a 26" frame. Dumb point, but just trying to say they are versatile.

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Old 03-04-09, 01:38 AM   #18
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I had this exact problem on both my 85 Trek 620 and my wife's 85 Trek 720, trying to put modern canti brakes on them. Front only, and the problem seems to be that the canti studs are too close by modern standards.

I fixed both of them by going to a smooth post type canti - on one bike, it was Tektro froglegs knockoffs and on the other VO grenouille brakes combined with judicious filing of the brake pad.

Dia Compe 960, like these on ebay, came on the bike and worked on the 720, and if they could work there, they can work anywhere. On the 620, Shimano Deer Head M-700 cantis like these on ebay came on the bike, again a very tough fit.
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Old 03-04-09, 04:13 AM   #19
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Southerland's has a cantilever brake table that lists among other dimensions the center to center minimum distance ('A') from cantilever brake arm mounting bolt to brake post.

Best are Gravity Research 'Rim Crushers' at 17mm and 'Pipe Crushers' at 15mm. Good luck. If you can find these budget $75 or more and have lots of patience.

Next best are Shimano Deore LX Br-M550's at 19mm. These are hard to find but not expensive. They did the trick on my '83 Centurion Pro Tour converted from 27's to 700c's.

Many, many here have reported success with Shimano BR-MC70's, first generation XT / Deerheads, whose dimension 'A' is 22mm. Although Southerlands itself mentions that despite what dimension 'A' measures, some cantilevers are more adjustable than others. Together with Salmon Kool Stops, These did the trick on my '84 Miyata 610, however, they were not quite adequate for the '83 Centurion Pro Tour.

In the course of doing the Pro Tour, I went through about $110 on four different sets of brakes and pads not to mention numerous cables; and salvaged back around $60. It's a process.

From the Pro-Tour 'process', I have two pair of BR-MC70's still to toss back, along with brand new salmon Kool-Stops. PM me if interested.

PS--What I've learned about setup. Southerlands had the info, it just had to be dug it out.

Draw an imaginary line from the center of your cantilever brake arm mounting bolt to the center of the brake post. Set up your cables so that this imaginary line is at 90 degrees to the straddle cable. Simple, right? I wish someone had told me this sooner, it would have spared so many straddle cables and nice new brake cables from getting trashed.

Last edited by mrmw; 03-04-09 at 04:18 AM.
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Old 03-04-09, 09:35 AM   #20
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What's so bad about 27"?

I don't see too many drawbacks....tires are still easy to find.
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Old 03-04-09, 09:58 AM   #21
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What's so bad about 27"?

I don't see too many drawbacks....tires are still easy to find.
I agree. Unless you have a frameshop move the canti bosses down 4mm, you'll have a hard time making any canti's work. You can get a very nice set of 27" alloy wheels for about a Benjamin. See here:

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/wheels/630.html

The WE277 5-/6-speed 27 inch Road Wheelsets should work nicely. These are single wall rims. If you want a box section rim, you'll have to pay a bit more for the WE279 Quando/Sun Sealed Bearing Wheelset.

You've got lots of options.

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Old 03-04-09, 11:08 AM   #22
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Instead of grinding the fork dropouts, what about grinding a little away from the slot in the brake calipers, just enough to let the pads move the amount you need?

This is what I did for a Miyata 310 with the same problem. Used a Dremel and a rotary file bit to lengthen the bottom of the slots a couple of mm. I just took off a little at a time till I had the clearance I needed.

I never had a problem of any kind with them, other than the extra length did make the brakes not quite so strong, but they were still perfectly adequate to my uses for commuting.
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Old 03-04-09, 03:02 PM   #23
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This is an interesting thread for me since i'm suffering through the same problem right now...

Well i went through it before too, and settled with the cheapest shimano cantis at my local bike shop. We half-installed them before i bought them and it looked like they'd work fine. And they do work. Just not really well. And until now it sufficed. But now i just got a job hauling heavy loads on my bike and i'm concerned that they won't really be sufficient for what i'll be doing.

I was going to just treat myself to a new long haul trucker frame, but recently realized that it would be way cheaper to have somebody weld new bosses on my frame/fork. i was quoted $80 for the whole deal. It would be nice to have solid brakes again, so i figure it's worth 80 dollars

Has anybody done this? Why does it never seem to be discussed when this comes up? It seems it's cheaper than buying 3 different sets of brakes and hoping something works. Would anybody recommend that i drill out my frame for some long reach calipers instead? (the fork just has a small fender mount) The tires i have are as wide as they'll ever be anyway. i'm curious what other people think.
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