Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    Senior Member xanadu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Chicago burbs
    My Bikes
    2008 Tarmac Elite, 2002 Cannondale Cyclocross
    Posts
    70
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Please help with a frame selection for my first build.

    As a happy, yet seeking variety, owner of CF and aluminum bikes, I am decided to build my first steel bike. I have a broad concept. Classic, elegant silver painted steel frame, modern group, nice, light road fenders and brown leather seat and handlebar tape. Gentleman's road bike. Something similar to Raleigh Clubmnan, but with classic geometry (no slope on TT):

    http://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/road/clubman/

    So my question. What frames would you recommend? Looking for something with standard thread (preferably), high quality (but no more then $350-400) , light and quick. As mentioned above more English gentleman than Italian stallion .

    That does not mean I would reject a nice Italian frame; more matter of character than nationality .

    Thank you for all suggestions and tips for first time builder. Pictures of the similar builds would be great.

  2. #2
    No lugs? No hugs. Exit.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    My Bikes
    '85 Miyata 310, '06 GT Performer
    Posts
    1,115
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Instead of setting your sights on a specific frame, I think you'd be better off seeing what's available in your area. Check your local craigslist, and see if there's anything that catches your eye. Trying to find one very specific vintage frame is often a wild goose chase.
    1997 Vitali track, 1986 Cilo Swiss road, 2006 KHS Flite 100, 2009 top-secret track bike.

  3. #3
    DRF aka Thrifty Bill wrk101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    The NC Mountains
    My Bikes
    Too many to list, all vintage
    Posts
    18,870
    Mentioned
    71 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Exit. View Post
    Instead of setting your sights on a specific frame, I think you'd be better off seeing what's available in your area. Check your local craigslist, and see if there's anything that catches your eye. Trying to find one very specific vintage frame is often a wild goose chase.
    +1 Exactly. Might look for a vintage Japanese bike. Then whatever good one comes along in the right size, go for it. Could take a long time if you lock into a specific model, its better to be open on models and just target an era or a level.

    Also Trek made some pretty nice steel bikes in the 1980s as well.
    Last edited by wrk101; 02-27-09 at 09:16 PM. Reason: addl comment

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Madison, WI
    My Bikes
    83 Trek 620, 84 Raleigh Portage, 84 Schwinn Voyageur, 85 Trek 460
    Posts
    463
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thats exactly what I do as well. Now if a person had a limitless amount of money to spend they could just go to ebay and pay full inflated price for a specific target frame. But I'd not be inclined to do that.

  5. #5
    Senior Member oldbobcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Boulder County, CO
    My Bikes
    '79 Gios, '80 Masi, '06 Felt, early '60s Frejus
    Posts
    2,455
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You can search the world for the perfect Raleigh Super Course (right!), and pass up a very sweet Univega or Atala because it wasn't hitting your radar. Know your size and the capabilities and features you want.

  6. #6
    Senior Member xanadu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Chicago burbs
    My Bikes
    2008 Tarmac Elite, 2002 Cannondale Cyclocross
    Posts
    70
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the responses. I have given myself some time for the build, so no rush. I have been looking at CL and ebay and saw some interesting frames but I know very little about older bikes so I wanted to get some examples of good frames so I can have some starting point of reference.

    Thanks and keep the ideas coming .

  7. #7
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,209
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Look for British steel with chainstays at least 43cm and good tire clearances. Some marquees to keep an eye out for:

    Bob Jackson
    Claud Butler
    Mercian
    Woodrup
    Holdsworth
    Dawes

    and more: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Bri...es/British.htm

    Raleigh International is a popular, abundant option. Schwinn Paramount P15 would be nice, but may not fit your budget. Trek made several 'sport touring' models that would fit your needs. And as wrk101 suggests, there are many, many Japanese built frames that would fit the bill, and would be easy on the wallet.

    Many other options out there. Again, look for longish chainstays, good tire clearances, and be sure to inquire about threading. If you want a modern build, stay away from French and Swiss. Be aware that many older frames don't have drilling for recessed brake nuts, so you'll have to drill yourself or find a work around. Also, many of the older frames have fewer braze-ons for convenience. You may also find you have to respace the rear drops for a 130mm hub.

    Here's my Japanese built Raleigh International Mk. II:


  8. #8
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,209
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Here's a great website with lots of user-submitted examples of custom retro-classic builds:

    http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/

  9. #9
    No lugs? No hugs. Exit.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    My Bikes
    '85 Miyata 310, '06 GT Performer
    Posts
    1,115
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by xanadu View Post
    Thanks for the responses. I have given myself some time for the build, so no rush. I have been looking at CL and ebay and saw some interesting frames but I know very little about older bikes so I wanted to get some examples of good frames so I can have some starting point of reference.

    Thanks and keep the ideas coming .
    The best way to know what you're looking at when you see a steel frame is to learn your tubing. There's way too many framebuilders to be able to recognize every one, but there's a fairly select group of companies that made quality tubing. As a general rule of thumb, any frame made of Reynolds, Columbus or Miyata tubing is a very decent bike. A bit of a step down but still good are Tange, Ishiwata, etc.

    If you're interested in a frame, ask the seller what the tubeset is. There's almost always a label that will tell you (in most cases where there isn't, it's either a repaint or something made of crappy tubing, neither of which are admirable frame properties.).

    I guess the most common high-quality tubesets would be Reynolds 531 and Columbus SL. Also, you can't go wrong with Miyata (they made their own tubing, and it's great. ^__^)
    1997 Vitali track, 1986 Cilo Swiss road, 2006 KHS Flite 100, 2009 top-secret track bike.

  10. #10
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,209
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Exit. View Post
    As a general rule of thumb, any frame made of Reynolds, Columbus or Miyata tubing is a very decent bike. A bit of a step down but still good are Tange, Ishiwata, etc.
    Tange and Ishiwata have/had a range of tubing similar to Reynolds and Columbus, including some very high end tubesets. An advantage may be that they often do not sell for the inflated prices of Reynolds or Columbus.

  11. #11
    Mostly Mischief jan nikolajsen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Moab, Utah
    My Bikes
    Cannondale SuperX, Santa Cruz Tallboy, Surly Krampus
    Posts
    1,418
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Silver frame, you say? Road fenders? Honey Brooks and bar tape? And one of the best rides in terms of a beautiful blend of speed and comfort? And definitely no sloping TT. Got one here:


  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Wilmette, IL
    Posts
    4,540
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Heres a beauty on ebay. American steel.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/Assenmasher-Fram...3A1%7C294%3A50

  13. #13
    No lugs? No hugs. Exit.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    My Bikes
    '85 Miyata 310, '06 GT Performer
    Posts
    1,115
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
    Tange and Ishiwata have/had a range of tubing similar to Reynolds and Columbus, including some very high end tubesets. An advantage may be that they often do not sell for the inflated prices of Reynolds or Columbus.
    I didn't think Tange made anything higher-end than the Champion tubesets. Am I mistaken?
    1997 Vitali track, 1986 Cilo Swiss road, 2006 KHS Flite 100, 2009 top-secret track bike.

  14. #14
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,209
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

  15. #15
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,209
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Excellent tubeset comparison guide for early 80's steel: http://www.desperadocycles.com/The_L...per_Tubing.htm

  16. #16
    Senior Member xanadu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Chicago burbs
    My Bikes
    2008 Tarmac Elite, 2002 Cannondale Cyclocross
    Posts
    70
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
    Look for British steel with chainstays at least 43cm and good tire clearances. Some marquees to keep an eye out for:

    Bob Jackson
    Claud Butler
    Mercian
    Woodrup
    Holdsworth
    Dawes

    and more: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Bri...es/British.htm

    Raleigh International is a popular, abundant option. Schwinn Paramount P15 would be nice, but may not fit your budget. Trek made several 'sport touring' models that would fit your needs. And as wrk101 suggests, there are many, many Japanese built frames that would fit the bill, and would be easy on the wallet.

    Many other options out there. Again, look for longish chainstays, good tire clearances, and be sure to inquire about threading. If you want a modern build, stay away from French and Swiss. Be aware that many older frames don't have drilling for recessed brake nuts, so you'll have to drill yourself or find a work around. Also, many of the older frames have fewer braze-ons for convenience. You may also find you have to respace the rear drops for a 130mm hub.

    Here's my Japanese built Raleigh International Mk. II:

    Could someone please explain thread compability? I did some research but am not 100% on it. Will any Japanese and British frame work with modern parts? Most Italian? And very few French?

    Thanks


    P.S. Great ride. Something similar to what I want, maybe bit younger frame for me. And good idea with Japanese frames.

  17. #17
    Member kmcc2576's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    46
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
    Excellent tubeset comparison guide for early 80's steel: http://www.desperadocycles.com/The_L...per_Tubing.htm
    According to that chart I am too heavy to ride a bike.

  18. #18
    No lugs? No hugs. Exit.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    My Bikes
    '85 Miyata 310, '06 GT Performer
    Posts
    1,115
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
    Oh, right, forgot about Prestige.

    I don't buy the maximum rider weight on that chart, though.
    1997 Vitali track, 1986 Cilo Swiss road, 2006 KHS Flite 100, 2009 top-secret track bike.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Madison, WI
    My Bikes
    83 Trek 620, 84 Raleigh Portage, 84 Schwinn Voyageur, 85 Trek 460
    Posts
    463
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Max rider weight is a lot more than they say on typical charts. You could probably multiply by 1.5 or even 2.0.

    I'd include Tange Champion #1 and #2 in the list of excellent tubing worthy of a rebuild.

  20. #20
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,209
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Exit. View Post
    Oh, right, forgot about Prestige.

    I don't buy the maximum rider weight on that chart, though.
    Still a valuable chart if you want to compare relative weights of different tubesets, wall thicknesses, and get a general idea of hierarchy. The weight issue has been gone over ad nauseam on this forum: they are manufacturer recommendations that can usually be ignored by the general public. However, race hard and often as a 200 lb rider on the lightest tubing for a few seasons, and you may see structural fatigue sooner than a 125 lb racer.

    And of course, the performance of any tubeset is highly variable, and subject to the quality of construction, geometry, purpose, etc. But since the issue of "quality tubing" was raised, this chart provides a decent beginner's guideline.

  21. #21
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Northwestern NJ
    Posts
    6,209
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by xanadu View Post
    Could someone please explain thread compability? I did some research but am not 100% on it. Will any Japanese and British frame work with modern parts? Most Italian? And very few French?

    Thanks


    P.S. Great ride. Something similar to what I want, maybe bit younger frame for me. And good idea with Japanese frames.
    Depends. You'll want to look for 68mm shells with BSA or English threading (same thing, different terminology) and standard 1" or 22.2 steerer. Unless you find something more modern with a threadless steerer.

    There are still Italian thread bottom brackets available in various sizes (including new cartridge bottom brackets), so don't let that scare you away. French is more rare, but Phil Wood makes compatible cups - but they ain't cheap.

    The problem you'll encounter with going "more modern" than a frame like mine (which is 1983 or so) is that there are fewer options available, as the 'sport touring' geometry faded away for a couple decades (1990 - present) in the mass market, though there was a niche market for it among independent framebuilders - examples that may be beyond your budget. As the Raleigh Clubman shows, it's making a bit of a comeback in the mass market. The least expensive examples of a retro frame with similar characteristics you seek is the Surly Crosscheck or Salsa Casseroll, or perhaps the Surly Pacer which is less cyclocross, more road.

    EDIT: But to answer your question more directly, there are plenty of older frames that are compatible with modern components. However, as with any custom build, expect to encounter some hiccups that will require swapping a component or finding a work around.
    Last edited by JunkYardBike; 02-28-09 at 07:34 AM.

  22. #22
    Disraeli Gears Charles Wahl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    NYC
    My Bikes
    Riding: 1960s Falcon commuter; Queued: 1977 Bob Jackson, 1983 Serotta Club Special, 1984 Motobécane Team Champion, 1983 Guerciotti SLX, 1974 Harding (like Holdsworth Pro), 1974 Peugeot PX10LE, 1970s Jeunet Franche-Comté, 1974 Raleigh International
    Posts
    3,009
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    For English Gentlefolk, try Raleigh International, if you can find one for $300-400. A Bob Jackson would be even more cherce. Higher-end Trek or Schwinn Paramount (the latter also overpriced) for American, or any number of boutique constructors, both English and American. If you want maximum parts availability and compatibility, stick to English/ISO threading = Japanese, English, American, Dutch mostly, with a few surprise (later) Motobecanes and Peugeots thrown in.

  23. #23
    . bbattle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Rocket City, No'ala
    My Bikes
    2014 Trek Domane 5.2, 1985 Pinarello Trevisio, 1991 Colnago Master, '06 Bianchi San Jose, 1987 Moulton Fuso, 1990 Gardin Shred, '82 John Howard(Dave Tesch)
    Posts
    12,050
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Some other tubing to look for is Oria, Gilco, Excell, and True Temper. Or the ever popular 4130 or double-butted chromium molybdenum(chromoly) as many frames had just generic stickers if they had them at all.

    A quick check of the seatpost diameter should tell you if you've got decent tubing over hi-ten steel. 27.2mm is the standard.


    Being in the Chicago area, you should have no trouble finding a suitable project frame or complete bike ready to roll.

    But if you see ads like this one: http://huntsville.craigslist.org/bik/1050173083.html

  24. #24
    Tinkerer jamesl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Tulsa, OK
    Posts
    152
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've encountered several lugged frame cromo Schwinns from the '80s lately at very reasonable prices. They are not the lightest in the world, but give a nice ride and are bullet proof frames. Le Tour's are fairly common and nice. Voyageur is less common and nicer. I currently have a Schwinn Traveler stripped down. The frame by itself weighs in at 5.3 pounds -- with fork it's 7 lbs even. That's with a 19" inch seat tube. Again, not super light but not bad -- and I paid $15 for the complete bike...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •