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Old 03-01-09, 11:34 AM   #1
Prudy
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Which Bottecchia Models are desirable?

Hi -

I'm going to look at one of these this morning - it is apparently from 1973 and has record components throughout.

No pics yet, sorry - do you know which models are desirable and which are not?

Thanks!

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Old 03-01-09, 11:53 AM   #2
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the pragmatic answer to that question must be "the one you´d like to ride"!
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Old 03-01-09, 12:12 PM   #3
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yes, of course!

But, alas - I have heard there are some which are not worth their weight in steel, shall we say.

Are there any models to be avoided?
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Old 03-01-09, 12:27 PM   #4
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Any old Bottecchia is a decent machine at least. I have a "DeLuxe", which was their entry level machine, and it's the equal of any Peugeot UO-8 or Raleigh Grand Prix of it's era in quality, and it benefits from having an Italian pedigree.
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Old 03-01-09, 12:28 PM   #5
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I wouldn't bother with the low end Bottechias myself. In fact, I don't think I ever worked on one I would like to own. Same with Atalas.
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Old 03-01-09, 12:37 PM   #6
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Mostly it looks cool...I have not spent enough time with it to work all the bugs out.
I ditched all the SImplex gear for period low end Campag.
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Old 03-01-09, 12:47 PM   #7
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The models of that era were essentially composed with two different frames. The desirable one is the "Professional" frame which is easily distinguished by Campagnolo dropouts. That frame also came in a Giro d'Italia model that had Nervex, Universal and other components rather than Record or Nuovo Record. So something with Record on it is likely to be the high-end frame. These frames build into very capable road bikes, but don't have the panache of their other contemporaries like Cinelli or even a Paramount. The finish of the frames is very utilitarian - no filed lugs or distinct tweaks, just solid and durable.

This is my Giro d'Italia upgraded to all Record.
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Old 03-01-09, 02:00 PM   #8
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The models of that era were essentially composed with two different frames. The desirable one is the "Professional" frame which is easily distinguished by Campagnolo dropouts. That frame also came in a Giro d'Italia model that had Nervex, Universal and other components rather than Record or Nuovo Record. So something with Record on it is likely to be the high-end frame. These frames build into very capable road bikes, but don't have the panache of their other contemporaries like Cinelli or even a Paramount. The finish of the frames is very utilitarian - no filed lugs or distinct tweaks, just solid and durable.

This is my Giro d'Italia upgraded to all Record.
Hey ldmataya, doesn't that make it a Professional now?

Anyway, +1 to what ldmataya said (except that would be Nervar rather than Nervex but anyway) and to what redneckwes said too. There were no bad Bottecchias, just buyers today perhaps with unrealistic expectations. By that I mean that a Bottecchia of any particular model was as nice a bike, sometimes better, than any other brand of bike in the same price range. I don't understand folks that try to compare for example a Masi or Cinelli that cost $500 at the time to a Bottecchia or Atala that cost $380. Apples and Oranges. It doesn't make the Bottecchia a bad bike. If it's one of the high end models from 1973 (Professional or Giro d'Italia) it'll be made of the exact same Columbus tubing, Prugnat lugs, and Campagnolo drop-outs as the really high-end bikes of the time. All that extra time the builder spent filing lugs and polishing things looked cool and made the Cinellis and Masis cost 30% more back then (and a lot more now) but had no effect on the overall utility of the bike. Ride and enjoy.
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Old 03-01-09, 02:28 PM   #9
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Record gruppos rarely get hung on junk frames. If the price is right and it fits you, go for it.
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Old 03-01-09, 02:30 PM   #10
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Anyway, +1 to what ldmataya said (except that would be Nervar rather than Nervex but anyway)
True enough, more likely to find a Bottecchia with a Nervar chainset rather than the incredibly rare Nervex.
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Old 03-01-09, 02:34 PM   #11
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Hey ldmataya, doesn't that make it a Professional now?
Good question. This has the steel rear der, early no record HF hubs and a 73 crank. It also has later long reach brakes, the "correct" ones are tough to find. A true Professional would be all Nuovo Record, with Nuovo rear and Record hubs, would it not?
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Old 03-01-09, 02:39 PM   #12
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Just got back from seeing the Bottechia -

Components were indeed all record/Nuovo Record except for the bakes which were Universal. The rims were updated w/ clinchers but the hubs were the original Campy record hubs.

Unfortunately, the bike had been completely painted over by the owner - a gunmetal gray. I believe the bike was probably a high-end model but it needed some work overall.

It was originally white, which would have been great. I guess I could have bought it and restored it but he was asking $400 which seemed a bit high to me for all the work it needed and he wouldn't budge on the price.

I don't know - should I have bitten? It rode well, but needed a complete overhaul + a re-paint + new decals as there were none left, including the head badge.

Parts checked out to 1973.
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Old 03-01-09, 02:46 PM   #13
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Good call. I doubt I would pay $400 for a frame I would not enjoy without a repaint unless I was sure it would cost more to obtain an equivalent Nuovo Record gruppo. One advantage of buying Nuovo Record in pieces is its easier to assess the condition - particularly of the crank (spider cracks on the inside are not uncommon).

This probably started out as a Giro d'Italia - based on the white paint job and the Universal brakes.
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Old 03-01-09, 04:26 PM   #14
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Good question. This has the steel rear der, early no record HF hubs and a 73 crank. It also has later long reach brakes, the "correct" ones are tough to find. A true Professional would be all Nuovo Record, with Nuovo rear and Record hubs, would it not?
Yes, except for the brakes which would be Universal Model 61 center-pulls. Oh, and the stem would be 3TTT Record instead of the Carnielli. I forget what the handlebars were, maybe 3TTT as well? I'd have to look at my notes. And a REG steel bottle cage with the spring clamp on either the Professional or Giro.

One thing not noted in any of the catalogs I've seen is that while the Giro d'Italia was spec'd with Record derailleurs and shifters, from around '71 on it was likely to be found with Valentino Extra gear. Around the same time, the Special, which was spec'd with the Valentino kit started showing up with Simplex Prestige as my 1974 model did. Nothing is documented on that but my guess would be that old style Record was becoming increasingly hard to get by that point during the bike boom and they felt safe in using the cheaper drivetrain components as they were probably selling everything they could make at that point no matter what it had on it.
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Old 03-01-09, 10:53 PM   #15
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Just got back from seeing the Bottechia -

Components were indeed all record/Nuovo Record except for the bakes which were Universal. The rims were updated w/ clinchers but the hubs were the original Campy record hubs.

Unfortunately, the bike had been completely painted over by the owner - a gunmetal gray. I believe the bike was probably a high-end model but it needed some work overall.

It was originally white, which would have been great. I guess I could have bought it and restored it but he was asking $400 which seemed a bit high to me for all the work it needed and he wouldn't budge on the price.

I don't know - should I have bitten? It rode well, but needed a complete overhaul + a re-paint + new decals as there were none left, including the head badge.

Parts checked out to 1973.

I miss my Bottecchia, but I wouldn't pay $400 for it in the condition you were describing. The cost of rebuilding it would not be justifiable, unless you were going to do all the work yourself. Good luck finding a Bottecchia head badge.


This is what mine looked like before it got jacked...
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Old 03-01-09, 11:49 PM   #16
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I miss my Bottecchia, but I wouldn't pay $400 for it in the condition you were describing. The cost of rebuilding it would not be justifiable, unless you were going to do all the work yourself. Good luck finding a Bottecchia head badge.


This is what mine looked like before it got jacked...
Your Giro d'Italia is the only black Bottecchia from that period I've ever seen. Too bad it got stolen

Badges do come up on eBay periodically, usually for $40-$50. There's one on there now but the guy wants $79 and it's not even in that good of condition.
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Old 03-02-09, 12:01 AM   #17
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Good call. I doubt I would pay $400 for a frame I would not enjoy without a repaint unless I was sure it would cost more to obtain an equivalent Nuovo Record gruppo. One advantage of buying Nuovo Record in pieces is its easier to assess the condition - particularly of the crank (spider cracks on the inside are not uncommon).

This probably started out as a Giro d'Italia - based on the white paint job and the Universal brakes.
Actually the Pro and the Giro were both available in Enamel White and Bottecchia Blue...as well as orange, black, and silver that I've seen - on most the brakes on both the Pro and the Giro are Universal center-pulls but the Pro will have Model 61 with blue color fill in the lettering on the outer caliper arms and blue washers while the Giro will just have 'Universal' with no fill and red washers. These were apparently a lesser model Universal brake but I've not been able to find out what they were called. I say most because I have seen one Professional with NR brakes. I don't know if that was original or added by the owner though.
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Old 03-02-09, 12:14 AM   #18
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Just got back from seeing the Bottechia -

Components were indeed all record/Nuovo Record except for the bakes which were Universal. The rims were updated w/ clinchers but the hubs were the original Campy record hubs.

Unfortunately, the bike had been completely painted over by the owner - a gunmetal gray. I believe the bike was probably a high-end model but it needed some work overall.

It was originally white, which would have been great. I guess I could have bought it and restored it but he was asking $400 which seemed a bit high to me for all the work it needed and he wouldn't budge on the price.

I don't know - should I have bitten? It rode well, but needed a complete overhaul + a re-paint + new decals as there were none left, including the head badge.

Parts checked out to 1973.
That's a tough one. Figure any vintage bike is likely to need an overhaul (cables, housing, brake pads, R&R bearings, etc.) so I wouldn't necessarily make that a factor. If the NR components were all good, if the clincher rims were good quality period correct rims (like a Super Champion Gentleman or something similar), and if the chrome were excellent...maybe. You could probably get a nice paint job and decals for $500 but then you'd be into it for a grand and that's a lot of money. You will certainly run across a clean Professional for less as they do pop up from time to time. I would expect to pay $600-$700 for one in excellent condition (then still figure another $100 for an overhaul). Then again, it would probably have the original Fiamme red label tubular rims and if you wanted to build up a wheelset with clinchers for everyday riding you'd be back near that $1000 mark.
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Old 03-02-09, 08:24 AM   #19
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The models of that era were essentially composed with two different frames. The desirable one is the "Professional" frame which is easily distinguished by Campagnolo dropouts. That frame also came in a Giro d'Italia model that had Nervex, Universal and other components rather than Record or Nuovo Record. So something with Record on it is likely to be the high-end frame. These frames build into very capable road bikes, but don't have the panache of their other contemporaries like Cinelli or even a Paramount. The finish of the frames is very utilitarian - no filed lugs or distinct tweaks, just solid and durable.

This is my Giro d'Italia upgraded to all Record.
Lovely bike. What's with the spoke card, though? Do you run alleycats on it?
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Old 03-02-09, 09:32 AM   #20
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Lovely bike. What's with the spoke card, though? Do you run alleycats on it?
The spoke card, Sweetness himself (Walter P), was around looooonnng before any hipster got around to re-inventing the idea. I've always had a card in my favorite bike, starting with my first bike at age 6 - Harmon Killebrew.
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