Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Senior Member ken_matthews's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Falls Church, VA
    My Bikes
    1979 Trek 3-sp, 1886 Unknown 52”hiwheel, 1970 Viscount fixed gear
    Posts
    217
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Mayday, Mayday - 1st Gear Going Fast

    It could have been the added load from the snow buildup under the fenders. But my Dreigang 3-speed hub is giving me problems in first gear. When applying a not-so-intense but fair amount of pressure (going uphill or from dead start), I get a skip in the pedal stroke where the hub seems to give then catches again to give me torque. I also notice the skip in second gear. Can't comment on third gear since I never really used it under any fair amount of torque today on account of the snow.

    I ride this bike everyday and know it well - this has never happened before. I oil the hub on a regular basis (using Three-in-One). Any ideas if this is easily fixed? Being the throw-away society we are, I'm expecting the answer of get a new one. But I'd like to salvage this one sine it has been so loyal (on a 72 Peugeot). Appreciate any thought in case you've "been there, done that."

    KEN

  2. #2
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
    My Bikes
    1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS
    Posts
    14,022
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't know anything about Dreigang but it sounds like an internal hub. Have you tried adjusting the cable? On my Sturmey Archer AW there can be problems if the cable isn't adjusted right and it can slip "in between" gears (for my hub, especially from 2nd to 3rd). I would liberally lube the cable (where it goes into the hub) and try adjusting it.
    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  3. #3
    Senior Member ken_matthews's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Falls Church, VA
    My Bikes
    1979 Trek 3-sp, 1886 Unknown 52”hiwheel, 1970 Viscount fixed gear
    Posts
    217
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey DOOHICKIE,

    Actually it doesn't slip between gears, but it slips while in a gear. For example, I'm in first gear and before I get through a full pedal stroke it jumps or loses force. I just noticed my chain is loose and this could (???) affect it. I'll tighten and see if anything improves on the ride home this evening. Otherwise it'll be slow and steady to not give it too much force. I'm sure the slipping under force is not good for the hub.

    Yes internal Dreigang/SACHS 3-speed hub.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,930
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think his point was that if the cable is not properly adjusted, it may appear to be in gear but the internal mechanism may actually be on the verge of being out of gear and the load causes it to pop out of gear.

    Lubricating the cable will ensure that it moves freely. such that when you change gears the cable moves the full amount and is not hung up due to friction.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    7,947
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Ken, I also don't know Sachs hubs, but on a Sturmey-Archer hub, that kind of slippage is usually the sign of a worn clutch. Fwiw.

    Neal

  6. #6
    Senior Member ken_matthews's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Falls Church, VA
    My Bikes
    1979 Trek 3-sp, 1886 Unknown 52”hiwheel, 1970 Viscount fixed gear
    Posts
    217
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    NEAL, worn clutch is my gut feeling on this too also (FWIW...haha). I just finished adjusting the play out of the chain and will have to wait until home to lube it. Should I just lube inside the hole on face of the hub in btwn the spokes? This is what I normally do, or should I also turn bike on side and lube down the small chain entry point?

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    7,947
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ken_matthews View Post
    NEAL, worn clutch is my gut feeling on this too also (FWIW...haha). I just finished adjusting the play out of the chain and will have to wait until home to lube it. Should I just lube inside the hole on face of the hub in btwn the spokes? This is what I normally do, or should I also turn bike on side and lube down the small chain entry point?
    Lubing the indicator chain or at least checking it for wear is a good idea. It could be hanging up slightly on your shifts if it's worn or has too much play.

    Neal

  8. #8
    Gear Hub fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV
    My Bikes
    Civia Hyland Rohloff, Swobo Dixon, Colnago, Univega
    Posts
    2,830
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sounds like an OLD Sachs hub if it has the oil hole. How many miles on it?

    3 in 1 oil is a poor choice for gear hub lubing as it has a tendency to oxidize and gum up the internals. That could be at least part of your problem. The old SA hubs were notorious for gumming up solid if fed 3 in 1 oil for a long time. 3 in 1 oil is primarily a vegetable based oil a I recall and they are well known for oxidizing compared to mineral oils. Better to use sewing machine oil, engine oil or even automatic transmission fluid for oiling.

    I believe that the SRAM T3 hub is basicallly the same as your Torpedo hub other than the oiling hole and disassembly/reassembly instructions are available on the SRAM web site. It could just need a good internal cleaning after so many years.
    Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

    Visit and join the Yahoo Geared Hub Bikes group for support and links.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geared_hub_bikes/

  9. #9
    Senior Member ken_matthews's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Falls Church, VA
    My Bikes
    1979 Trek 3-sp, 1886 Unknown 52”hiwheel, 1970 Viscount fixed gear
    Posts
    217
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's fixed!! Apparently it was a combination of too much slack in the chain and messing with barrel adjuster until I found the 'sweet spot' for shifting into all 3 gears.

    TATFIEND, thanks for the info although 3-in-1 is not a viscous oil as your description. Certainly nowhere near as thick as say Phil Woods oil. I've tried that once, and the BF guys said switch to 3-in-1. It seems to lube well and no problems thus far. Thanks for the advice! Back in the saddle again....

  10. #10
    Gear Hub fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV
    My Bikes
    Civia Hyland Rohloff, Swobo Dixon, Colnago, Univega
    Posts
    2,830
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ken_matthews View Post
    It's fixed!! Apparently it was a combination of too much slack in the chain and messing with barrel adjuster until I found the 'sweet spot' for shifting into all 3 gears.

    TATFIEND, thanks for the info although 3-in-1 is not a viscous oil as your description. Certainly nowhere near as thick as say Phil Woods oil. I've tried that once, and the BF guys said switch to 3-in-1. It seems to lube well and no problems thus far. Thanks for the advice! Back in the saddle again....
    Not viscous out of the can, I agree. Inside a hub it tends to oxidize and get gummy however over a period of time. Use of it long term has caused a large number of gear hubs to require opening up and full disassembly for cleaning eventually.

    Here is a link to some lubrication advice for SA hubs. Read the last entry.

    http://stein.dommel.be/brompton/chapters/Gears.html#254

    Also Sheldon Brown recommended Phil Wood Tenacious Oil for oiling gear hubs while others recommend 20 or 30 weight automotive oil including Bikesmith Design here:

    http://bikesmithdesign.com/SA/SA-Tips.doc

    I would expect all oiled geqar hubs to have similar oiling requirements except the Rohloff, the only true oil bath lubricated gear hub I am aware of.
    Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

    Visit and join the Yahoo Geared Hub Bikes group for support and links.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geared_hub_bikes/

  11. #11
    Great State of Varmint Panthers007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Dante's Third Ring
    Posts
    7,481
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A good oil I used to stock was ATF - automatic transmission fluid. The pink stuff. Worked great on 3-spds and cost zilch. A quart for a dollar.
    How do you keep an idiot in suspense?

  12. #12
    Senior Member ken_matthews's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Falls Church, VA
    My Bikes
    1979 Trek 3-sp, 1886 Unknown 52”hiwheel, 1970 Viscount fixed gear
    Posts
    217
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    TATFIEND (aka Rich??) - I just joined the geared-hub yahoo group and noticed a very similar post. I'll pick up some ATF in a bottle and transfer to something more portable for the road. I guess it's back to the Phil Woods tenacious oil for now too!

  13. #13
    Senior Member RobbieTunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,664
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Thanks for an interesting thread, and I'm glad it wasn't at someone's expense.
    It's got me interested in getting a 3-speed now, kind of a phantom; ss look, a range of options.

    Robbie ♪♫♪...☻

    I'm not a doctor, but I watch them on TV.

    1982 Lotus Classique
    1987 D'Arienzo (Basso) SLX
    1995 Hot Tubes TT
    2006 Cinelli XLR8R-2
    2008 BMC Roadracer SL01
    2014 Wraith Hustle
    2014 Wraith Paycheck

  14. #14
    Senior Member ken_matthews's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Falls Church, VA
    My Bikes
    1979 Trek 3-sp, 1886 Unknown 52”hiwheel, 1970 Viscount fixed gear
    Posts
    217
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Phantom SS...interesting - never thought of it that way. Can tell you it's rock solid and will hold up against the elements

  15. #15
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
    My Bikes
    1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS
    Posts
    14,022
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
    Thanks for an interesting thread, and I'm glad it wasn't at someone's expense.
    It's got me interested in getting a 3-speed now, kind of a phantom; ss look, a range of options.
    You mean like this?



    I'll let ya know when I've got it cleaned up...
    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  16. #16
    Gear Hub fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV
    My Bikes
    Civia Hyland Rohloff, Swobo Dixon, Colnago, Univega
    Posts
    2,830
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
    Thanks for an interesting thread, and I'm glad it wasn't at someone's expense.
    It's got me interested in getting a 3-speed now, kind of a phantom; ss look, a range of options.
    I have a FG bike that I have made up a SRAM P5 five speed gear hub rear wheel for. Working very well and the P5 is narrow enough so I did not need to cold set the frame so I can still use the FG wheel or the SA S3X fixed gear 3 speed hub when it becomes available.
    Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

    Visit and join the Yahoo Geared Hub Bikes group for support and links.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geared_hub_bikes/

  17. #17
    Gear Hub fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV
    My Bikes
    Civia Hyland Rohloff, Swobo Dixon, Colnago, Univega
    Posts
    2,830
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ken_matthews View Post
    TATFIEND (aka Rich??) - I just joined the geared-hub yahoo group and noticed a very similar post. I'll pick up some ATF in a bottle and transfer to something more portable for the road. I guess it's back to the Phil Woods tenacious oil for now too!
    Guilty as charged

    I started the Yahoo group to share expertise on IGH questions.
    Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

    Visit and join the Yahoo Geared Hub Bikes group for support and links.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geared_hub_bikes/

  18. #18
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas Church of Hopeful Uncertainty
    My Bikes
    1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist, 1973 Schwinn Varsity, 1983 Raleigh Marathon, 1994 Nishiki Sport XRS
    Posts
    14,022
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    So, um, how do ya know you have enough oil? (or too much?) I know I posted earlier with advice, but apparently I'm no expert. Since I was putting new tires on my Raleigh DL-1 I decided to clean things up a bit and get that nasty ol' 3-in-1 oil out of there (the stuff I put in last fall when I bought the bike last fall). After draining it out, I put some motor oil in there, but now it's drip-drip-dripping everywhere. I'm assuming I put too much in and it's not meant to be above the level of the hub. Is there any secret to getting it back to the proper amount of oil?
    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  19. #19
    Gear Hub fan
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV
    My Bikes
    Civia Hyland Rohloff, Swobo Dixon, Colnago, Univega
    Posts
    2,830
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Doohickie View Post
    So, um, how do ya know you have enough oil? (or too much?) I know I posted earlier with advice, but apparently I'm no expert. Since I was putting new tires on my Raleigh DL-1 I decided to clean things up a bit and get that nasty ol' 3-in-1 oil out of there (the stuff I put in last fall when I bought the bike last fall). After draining it out, I put some motor oil in there, but now it's drip-drip-dripping everywhere. I'm assuming I put too much in and it's not meant to be above the level of the hub. Is there any secret to getting it back to the proper amount of oil?
    Sturmeys and Sachs oiled hubs are not oil bath and do not have seals on the bearings. If overoiled it WILL find it's way out the ends or at the oiler cap. Recommendations I have seen are a couple of teaspoons of oil after a rebuild and degreasing and then a few drops every month or so depending on mileage used. Ride some after oiling to distribute the oil.

    If overfilled so excessive oil is leaking out then turn the hub so the oiler is down and open it with a rag underneath to allow the excess oil to drain onto the rag.

    Properly oiled a small amount may find it's way out the bearings. Just wipe the ends clean occasionally. Excess oil leakage is a sign of overoiling.
    Gear Hubs Owned: Rohloff disc brake, SRAM iM9 disc brake, SRAM P5 freewheel, Sachs Torpedo 3 speed freewheel, NuVinci CVT, Shimano Alfine SG S-501, Sturmey Archer S5-2 Alloy. Other: 83 Colnago Super Record, Univega Via De Oro

    Visit and join the Yahoo Geared Hub Bikes group for support and links.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geared_hub_bikes/

  20. #20
    Great State of Varmint Panthers007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Dante's Third Ring
    Posts
    7,481
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'd add the oil (ATF) using a laboratory pipette. Like a fancy eyedropper - which also works and can help prevent over-oiling the 3-speed gears.
    How do you keep an idiot in suspense?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •